What Grit Sandpaper for Making a Knife Convex

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I was planning on convexing some of my knives, but I wasn't sure about what grits of sandpaper I should get.

Also I've never tried it before, so any tips are appreciated.

Erdbeereis
 
When I'm turning an edge into a convex edge for the first time, I use 220, 400, 1000, 1500, and 2000, in that order, followed by a leather strop loaded with Chromium Oxide. I spend the most time on 220 when I'm turning a conventional edge into a convex edge for the first time, but for touch ups, I find a few licks on 1000-2000 grit will work just fine to touch up an edge.
 
When I'm turning an edge into a convex edge for the first time, I use 220, 400, 1000, 1500, and 2000, in that order, followed by a leather strop loaded with Chromium Oxide. I spend the most time on 220 when I'm turning a conventional edge into a convex edge for the first time, but for touch ups, I find a few licks on 1000-2000 grit will work just fine to touch up an edge.
Does a higher grit level make the edge more fragile? If so, how high should I go?

Thanks,

Erdbeereis
 
Does a higher grit level make the edge more fragile? If so, how high should I go?
No, deeper/uneven grooving (furrows caused by low grit abrasives) or a thinner edge make the edge more fragile. Higher grit polish => less grooving.
...what grit do you recommend for batoning?
For push-cuts (which includes batonning), a high polish lends superior edge stability.
For slice-cuts, a low polish (more coarse) can create micro-serrations which can aid separation of the medium being cut (like a saw on wood).
 
No, deeper/uneven grooving (furrows caused by low grit abrasives) or a thinner edge make the edge more fragile. Higher grit polish => less grooving.

For push-cuts (which includes batonning), a high polish lends superior edge stability.
For slice-cuts, a low polish (more coarse) can create micro-serrations which can aid separation of the medium being cut (like a saw on wood).

Thanks a lot, if it turns out well I'll try to post pics.

Erdbeereis
 
When I'm turning an edge into a convex edge for the first time, I use 220, 400, 1000, 1500, and 2000, in that order, followed by a leather strop loaded with Chromium Oxide. I spend the most time on 220 when I'm turning a conventional edge into a convex edge for the first time, but for touch ups, I find a few licks on 1000-2000 grit will work just fine to touch up an edge.


Sometimes I've started with 180 to knock of the shoulders, which is a very laborious part of the convexing. But in general these are roughly the grits I use also. I dont use 1500 but use 800 after 400. And been happy with the results.
 
Sorry for the double post, but what grit do you recommend for batoning?

Erdbeereis

I recommend you don't baton with your knives, period. Problem solved! :D:thumbup:

As far as how high you should go, in terms of grits, the higher the better, generally speaking. The lower grits remove metal faster than the higher grits, but leave a coarser edge which tends to dull faster than a highly polished edge (in my experience). The higher grits remove metal more slowly, but leave a more polished edge.
 
For push-cuts (which includes batonning), a high polish lends superior edge stability.
For slice-cuts, a low polish (more coarse) can create micro-serrations which can aid separation of the medium being cut (like a saw on wood).

I'd like to see you provide proof on that idea as there isn't real concrete proof on a coarse edge cutting anything better.

As we know, a higher grit finish is sharper, that's why stones of higher grit and finer finish are all around us. How is a duller knife better on some materials? Also, can you saw a piece of wood with a Coarse edge?
 
I'd like to see you provide proof on that idea

Okay, Here you go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCcbyJLAGAw

In this video, the uploader demonstrated that the 'toothier' edge cut this material better than the polished edge. Your turn; lets see some proof to back up your statements.

Erdbeereis, this subject has been done to death, with lots of people enjoying the advantages of polished and toothy edges, respectively. Here's an older topic about it; if you want to see some discussion about the pros and cons of toothy-vs-polished edges, you can always read some of the older discussions.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/725090-quot-Toothy-quot-Edge-vs.-Polished-Edge
 
Do I have to make a strop? Or I've also heard of some people using a phonebook cover with success, so would that work?

Thanks for all the answers,

Erdbeereis
 
220 grit to do the heavy metal removal
320 will begin to smooth out the scratches from the 220
400/600 will give a nice 'satin' finish
800 still 'satin' but approaching polished
1000 will begin to show some 'mirror' shine
2000 will really reveal the shine

I've been following that up with Simichrome on a leather strop block. Really makes it gleam.

As a 'short cut' to start, I've had good luck making the initial bevel with a coarse diamond hone (DMT continuous). Then follow up with the sandpaper (from about 400 on up), to convex the bevel & polish it. I think this works better on smaller blades (like folders & pocketknives). With a large blade, better to form the initial bevel with the coarse sandpaper on soft(ish) backing, like leather.
 
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In this video, the uploader demonstrated that the 'toothier' edge cut this material better than the polished edge. Your turn; lets see some proof to back up your statements.

There are so many factors to change the results that it's not even a good demonstration for either parties. I'm simply asking for proof of the matter since chiral. gromlin said it so swiftly.

In no way am I putting the burden on a particular kind of edge but questioning either. Look at my sig line, my friend
 
Also, can you saw a piece of wood with a Coarse edge?

Well if you want to think creatively a saw is an extremely course edge. Would you have better results sawing a log in half with a polished straight edge or a saw? A polished edge or a serrated edge? I would think a razor sharp polished edge would take longer to saw through the wood than either a saw(hopefully duh) a serrated edge, or a coarser less fine straight edge.

Kind of like would a nail file or a polished flat piece of metal get through the wood quicker.

Makes sense in my head, hopefully it does to you guys.
 
I really hope this won't devolve into another 'polished vs. toothy' thread. That's been debated to death (ad infinitum), never definitively proves anything, and it always comes down to the same conclusion:

It depends on the INDIVIDUAL'S own uses & preferences. Everything else is meaningless.

With respect to the OP, let him decide for himself what's 'best'. He's going to sharpen his knife the way he wants, and then he'll use it. He'll draw his own conclusions about how to change it, to suit his needs. That's the way it should be.
 
Thanks everyone!

I'm getting 220, 400, 600, 800, 1000, and 2000.

Now to just find a darn mousepad...

Erdbeereis
 
I'd like to see you provide proof on that idea as there isn't real concrete proof on a coarse edge cutting anything better.

As we know, a higher grit finish is sharper, that's why stones of higher grit and finer finish are all around us. How is a duller knife better on some materials? Also, can you saw a piece of wood with a Coarse edge?
1) Re-read the part of my post that you bolded for criticism (I'll highlight vocabulary you seem to have missed):
For slice-cuts, a low polish (more coarse) can create micro-serrations which can aid separation of the medium being cut (like a saw on wood).
I made no definitive statement regarding performance of either edge-style. However, i draw my conclusion from a number of factors: a) extensive personal experience b) both laboratory and general field experiments in a variety of environments (you can search these out yourself on the internet, and knife-people names to look for include Cliff Stamp and Joe Talmadge) c) the related experiences of chefs, sailors, farmers, etc. d) Physics (I can attempt to explain the precise mechanics if you are unable to grasp it conceptually, however I do not have rights to post pictures/diagrams to assist you).

There is "proof" sufficient to justify the statement (and its swiftness ;) )

2) Please support and explain your assertion that "higher grit finish is sharper", including an agreed upon definition of "sharper". How do you achieve "coarse = dull"?

3) You will also notice that besides the high-grit abrasives available there is an extensive variety of "coarse" abrasives, and arguably in greater quantities. Does this prove something? :confused:

4) YES, you most certainly CAN saw wood with a coarse edge, and indeed, every saw employs this.

Note also how "coarseness" also determines the ease and speed with which abrasives remove material, including those sharpening stones against your blade! Are the stones which remove more material faster and easier more "dull" than those which remove less material in the same amount of time??
"Coarse" does not equate to "dull" any more than "fine" equates to "sharp".

I echo your own recommendation - Look at your sig line. Investigate the matter (a,b,c,d) prior to voicing opposition.

Well if you want to think creatively a saw is an extremely course edge. Would you have better results sawing a log in half with a polished straight edge or a saw? A polished edge or a serrated edge? I would think a razor sharp polished edge would take longer to saw through the wood than either a saw(hopefully duh) a serrated edge, or a coarser less fine straight edge.

Kind of like would a nail file or a polished flat piece of metal get through the wood quicker.
:thumbup: You've got the concept right, experience agrees with your assessment, there is some pretty basic physics to explain it as well (though it recommends diagrams for clarity).
Another concept to grasp is that of the "radiused" edge, that on a microscopic level most fine-edges are not formed by the intersection of two plains but are instead rounded together. That round edge may be sufficiently thin to slip through (cut) many materials and cause separation, or it may end up "skating" across the surface (yes, just like an ice-skate vs. spiked boot treads). One may argue that in such a case the edge must simply be ground further at the same fine level to reduce the radius at the edge, and some people do excel at such sharpening... but such a thinly ground edge sacrifices robust metal support and may degrade rapidly back to "skating". Another problem is that some blades can only reach a certain level of "fineness" due to grain size. This can be a disadvantage if you need that perfect fine-edge for push-cutting as with, for example, a Diatome or Cryotome blade. But larger grain-size can also be an advantage as sharpening results in micro-serrations to aid in slicing performance.
One thing to beware of regarding micro-serrations, however, is that softer materials may be able to fill in the valleys between points, like snow under your spiked-boots, resulting in loss of cutting ability and that same "skating" effect. This same effect is seen when sawing wood - if the serrations fill up with material then the blade loses all "bite".

Sooo... do we need to go into the physics of why serrations can be beneficial or "sharper" when cutting some materials?

I really hope this won't devolve into another 'polished vs. toothy' thread. That's been debated to death (ad infinitum)...

It depends on the INDIVIDUAL'S own uses & preferences...

With respect to the OP, let him decide for himself what's 'best'. He's going to sharpen his knife the way he wants, and then he'll use it. He'll draw his own conclusions about how to change it, to suit his needs. That's the way it should be.
:thumbup: Amen, especially to the bolded part. :thumbup:
 
How very misleading I was. I apologize for saying Higher grit=sharper

I showed a friend on Monday 120Grit can slice paper very cleanly, so I kind of spewed out dull on that note


However, Saw teeth are much larger than micro serrations. We're talking in the thousands here, Teeth don't mean teeth. Teeth are jagged edges, aren't they?

Saw and knives are different tools in that one locks onto the material and rips it away and the other splits the material in two
 
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