What Happened to Talonite?

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Wasn't Talonite supposed to be the dream blade material. Slippery, yet holding a good edge. Did it fail in the marketplace, or am just looking in the wrong direction for knives with this cool material? :jerkit:
 
Been wondering that myself. Used to be you'd see lots of customs being made in Talonite only a year or so ago. Not so much anymore.
 
i think the price of the alloy itself is so expensive,its hard to make a knife thats reasonably priced..........
 
It was a fad material, much of the properties were vastly overhyped with lots of misinformation such as "it loses its razor edge quickly but holds a working edge for a long time". This nonlinear behavior is how steel behaves, it isn't unique to Talonite.

There were also many distortions of the materials properties because it test really soft/weak. So people would claim things like it didn't matter that Talonite was soft because it was full of hard carbides and they do the cutting (they don't). Annealed steel is full of hard carbides too.

Once it hit the produciton market strongly it became obvious that the material was weak and the edge deformed easy and needed to be signficantly thicker than steel to handle the same tasks and thus was inferior in both edge retention and cutting ability.

There are still makers using it, but generally this is only one hot material at a time and now it is S30V though that isn't as nearly strong in terms of public perception as it was 1-2 years ago. ZDP-189 is also getting press as a "superior" steel over S30V however it is in very limited use now which both elevates its status but keeps the hype in check.

-Cliff
 
I predict the next post after mine will be someone saying how many knives are being made from it and it's not a fad material.
 
I'd like a knife in Talonite, but mostly because I'm curious about it. The price of the stuff, though, is just outta sight! Besides, one of its most attractive features to me (corrosion resistence) is starting to be achieved by cheaper materials like H1. I'm still curious about it, though.
 
I have a CUDE EDC with Talonite. It didn't hold an edge very well at all. As a matter of fact it needed to be reprofiled fairly quickly because of chipping. It doesn't do well with hard cutting, not a good whittler. It is easy to sharpen though and takes a nice "toothy" edge. I suppose it would make a good hunting/caping steel if you avoid the bones. I think the popularity of the designs of Rob Simonich and his use of Talonite are what made it FOTMish.
 
DaveH said:
I predict the next post after mine will be someone saying how many knives are being made from it and it's not a fad material.
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Chuck Bybee of Alpha Knife Supply has stated quite a few times that he is selling more Talonite now than he ever did in the past. I don't see it showing up in the knife market. Maybe Chuck will see this thread and let us know which makers and manufacturers he knows of that are using Talonite.

The fact is that Talonite is tremendously expensive. If a maker wanted to make a 6" full tang knife (this would require a piece about 11 inches long) with a 1.25" wide blade, the cost of the Talonite would be about $245.00 plus shipping (from Chuck). An equivalent sized piece of ZDP-189 would cost about $70.00 plus shipping from Japan (from Hatta Industrial). I personally don't see advantages that Talonite provides that would be worth the huge cost increase over steels such as H-1 (for diving knives), or ZDP-189.
 
Keith Montgomery said:
Chuck Bybee of Alpha Knife Supply has stated quite a few times that he is selling more Talonite now than he ever did in the past.
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This is what you call creative use of statistics. If fifty people are selling a material and all but one remain after five years, that one person could still be selling far more than they ever did but obviously the total volume has drastically decreased. Generally you don't look to salespeople for unbiased information/statistics on the products they offer.

The fact is that Talonite is tremendously expensive.
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I bought Talonite to make a 4" blade, it was $50 from Simonich including shipping. This is insignificant compared to the price of high end customs. You also don't have to heat treat Talonite which reduces the effective cost. Compare it for example to someone forging steel, and especially damascus, now those are expensive materials and they are still very popular. The dust of Talonite is toxic which makes it more problematic to work with for makers, not that you want to be breathing in lots of any steel dust in general.

-Cliff
 
I love the stuff, and I would use more of it if I could get my hands on it.
I made my friend a skinner out of Talonite and it has performed excellent!!
I think a skinning knife is probably one of the best applications for Talonite.
 
By the way, the thickness of the Talonite that I gave pricing on in my above post is .188. The ZDP-189 is .197.

Even in a custom knife, a cost of $245.00 for just the blade material is not insignificant. I have seen quite a few custom 6" full tang knives that sell for under $245.00. Pricing like that would for the most part take it out of the production knife market. Most people that purchase production knives would not be willing to pay the price, and by far the vast majority of knife purchases are for production knives.

In my opinion, Talonite is a material that doesn't offer benefits commensurate with its cost. Pattern welded steel (damascus) is the same, but in my opinion it adds to the beauty of a knife. Talonite doesn't even have that going for it.

There are people that will be willing to pay for the fact that Talonite isn't a material that is commonly used. They like the exclusivity. There are also those that will think the benefits of Talonite are worth the extra cost. It is my opinion though that these people are few and far between, and that this is why you don't see Talonite being used much.

Tom Mayo uses it on a regular basis and quite likely has a different perspective.
 
Cliff Stamp said:
...I bought Talonite to make a 4" blade, it was $50 from Simonich including shipping.
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When did you buy this, and was it a knife that was 4" total or a knife with a 4" blade? I'm only asking because I was under the impression that Talonite had undergone a rather large price increase over the last year or so? I'd be happy to know I'm wrong.

Also, though you don't have to HT Talonite, don't you end up squandering the cost savings on grinding belts? I was also under the impression that Talonite was harder on belts than straight steel.

I'm a tad confused on these two points :confused: .
 
I have 3 Talonite knives, all from Camillus. I have a Mini-Talon, a Talon, and a Talonite EDC. The Talonite EDC sits on my computer desk in the basement. My basement is very damp, and most knives begin to rust quickly when left down there. The EDC gets used mainly for opening envelopes and cardboard boxes. It gives me no problems, but doesn't get used very hard.

The Talon gets used for cleaning fish, such as bass and walleye. The tip isn't perfect for the task, but the knife does a good overall job. It's very convenient to be able to leave the knife in my pack, and not have to worry about it. Again, it doesn't see any really rough treatment.

The Mini-Talon doesn't get used. For its size, the grind is really too thick to be useful. The blade is also a bit shorter than it was oriiginally. The tip broke off while cutting a brick of...... cheese. I think I swallowed the tip a few years ago, along with some cheddar.
 
SpyderJon said:
When did you buy this, and was it a knife that was 4" total or a knife with a 4" blade?
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Four inch blade, this was years ago when it first came out. I sold it for something like $75 a few years back. It was not impressive in anyway outside of the corrosion resistance. I would prefer Beta-Ti, it doesn't offer any better edge strength, but it is way tougher and more flexible. For a cutting material with high corrosion resistance in the extremes then H1 works well, but even 420HC is difficult to rust significantly aside from constantly exposure to salt spray.

I was also under the impression that Talonite was harder on belts than straight steel.
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That would depend on the steel, some of the high wear steels are very difficult to grind.

Keith Montgomery said:
Pricing like that would for the most part take it out of the production knife market.
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For that style of knife yes, but it is hard to argue that a thick full tang slab knife design is a productive use of a soft, weak and brittle material which main advantage is a high wear resistance in hot and corrosion enviroments. As I said, I bought a piece to make a MEUK for ~$50. I bought one in 52100 and another in Talonite. They were basically the same price. The 52100 had the extra cost of heat treating and the shipping to and from the heat treater. This was a one of, so high batch heat treating would eliminate that of course.

-Cliff
 
I have a Talon, mini-Talon, and an EDC from Camilus. The talon does duty in the kitchen where my wife keeps it in here knife block and Yes, it just keeps cutting even when it fells dull. The mini-Talon I used to carry as a neck knife and used it everyday to cut things like labels off of recycleable bottles and split my blue towels from costco (shop towels of paper but reusable). The EDC rides in one of my coat pockets and has yet to sharpened beyond the factory edge.

Another reason talonite knives are so expensive is that it really tears up tools like grinders and belt sanders. I have to use one of my diamond stones to get a really good edge on the Talon.

Those are probably the only talonite knives I will have because there really is a lot of much better knife steels on the market now.

FWIW
Ciao
:eek:
 
Talonite seems to be best when cutting meat.ive had 2 talonite folders, & the edges roll very easily when something hard hits it, like bone,hard woods,or concrete.i used one for cutting carpet padding, it worked well,& held a long edge, but if i hit a concrete floor or a nail,the edge would roll.i used d2 for the same thing & it didnt dent.seems like when a fine edge is put on talonite, it gets fragile.for an edc,it may not be the best blade,especially if you accidently hit a hard object with the edge......
 
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