What happened to us?

[timcsaw]

"Two words which you may have overheard which could not possibly have any meaning to you or anyone in your organization."

-- Auric Goldfinger in the movie Goldfinger


Two words. Maybe you can expand on them a bit, explain what you mean by them, explain why they explain the situation in our society vis a vis big projects such as space programs.

I could go into some detail, but I choose not to because I'd probably have to get all Biblical on ya', thump the bible, and whip it open to the Book of Revelations (and I'd rather have those who are truly interested (such as yourself), seek their own answers).

Rather than going "all Biblical on y'all", I'll just offer this from Bhikkhu Bodhi;

"By assigning value and spiritual ideals to private subjectivity, the materialistic world view, threatens to undermine any secure objective foundation for morality. The result is the widespread moral degeneration that we witness today. To counter this tendency, mere moral exhortation is insufficient. If morality is to function as an efficient guide to conduct, it cannot be propounded as a self-justifying scheme but must be embedded in a more comprehensive spiritual system which grounds morality in a transpersonal order. Religion must affirm, in the clearest terms, that morality and ethical values are not mere decorative frills of personal opinion, not subjective superstructure, but intrinsic laws of the cosmos built into the heart of reality."

 

[java]

Interesting points Gollnick. I'd like to discuss them later after I leave the flight research center today.

Meanwhile, concern from outside the US on the cancellation of Constellation:

The Free World Is Losing NASA's Space Leadership

This is the agency that has contributed most to America's prestige with its innovative and extraordinary achievements in space, from the time of early explorations of the universe to today's highly advanced technological achievements. Is prestige important?

Not only is prestige important, it is part of the American tradition, part of American life and by extension, America's preeminence lights the free world and provides hope and support that other nations, too, can shine and succeed.

j

 

[joe-bob]

People are much more cowardly nowadays.

It has to do with politics, but not solely.

It has to do with Feminism, Political Correctness, Multiculturalism, Homosexualism, Anti-Christianism, and a total lack of personal responsibility in every aspect of our current society.

When you lie down with snakes, you're gonna come up poisoned.

 

[Lawmandan]

It has to do with Feminism, Political Correctness, Multiculturalism, Homosexualism, Anti-Christianism, and a total lack of personal responsibility in every aspect of our current society.

To me as an English outsider you have hit the nail on the head, but for the exact opposite attitudes you profess.

America was born from a desire for freedom. Freedom from an arrogant and stupid colonial government. A wish to be a place in control of it's own destiny. Noble and hugely significant decisions which we all respect and admire across the world.

The founders of your nation created a template for freedom in your Constitution.

You fought the first modern war between yourselves and millions died in the name of freedom.

A woman sat in a seat on a bus in the name of freedom.

To suggest that America has somehow failed because of the defence of the freedom of minorities is really the great failing of modern America.

Look to the Statue of Liberty and read what she proclaims.

Danzo

 

[verdigo]

very good input people...my answer is very simple;We are all so much more well informed now, the wheels have fallen off the propaganda machine.

 

[Skimo]

The statue of liberty proclaims nothing, there's a placard at her base, even that is only a poem.

She's French, not "American" and that placard is only a placard.

 

[joe-bob]

To suggest that America has somehow failed because of the defence of the freedom of minorities is really the great failing of modern America.

I did no such thing.



...and for Gollnick,


"Cultural relativism" is the mythical belief that there is no actual right and wrong; and therefore, if some "culture" (or subculture) can be found that says that some specific abhorent behavior is acceptable (no matter what that might be), then it is indeed genuinely acceptable and cannot be considered wrong or immoral.

 

[stabman]

It has to do with Feminism, Political Correctness, Multiculturalism, Homosexualism, Anti-Christianism, and a total lack of personal responsibility in every aspect of our current society.

No it doesn't.

 

[hoopster]

Either a stack of books on various political and social topics, or a summariztion in one word to describe where this country and its leadership have declined and are now virtually bankrupt. The word is "Honor" at both the individual and national level; and there is very little left of it. I think people have completely forgotten what it is.

True, it's been replaced by a different word. "Greed".

 

[Lawmandan]

The statue of liberty proclaims nothing, there's a placard at her base, even that is only a poem.

She's French, not "American" and that placard is only a placard.

She's French?

Well, yes, I guess she is. And she arrived in 1886. I'm guessing that very many members of this forum are from families who first arrived in America after 1886.

And it's 'only a poem'.....really?

Aren't the words of Emma Lazarus the absolute definition of what America usd to be, and why untold millions of people came to find freedom and a better life, thousands of miles from all they had ever known?

This is what she wrote:

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Maybe it's because I'm not American, but as someone who has worked and studied and travelled all over your great nation I still think that her words carry huge significance to people all over the world. Her words promise freedom, and freedom is a precious thing for those who have suffered oppression.

And the big French girl in New York harbour, well, she's become a symbol of America. Of the best of what America can be.

I like her.

Danzo

 

[dangreco]

So here we are in 2010, four decades later. What happened to that unity? That esprit de corps? Perhaps it's just me being nostalgic, but I think we have definitely lost something precious. I know it was far from perfect in those years (e.g., Vietnam, Cuban Missile Crisis, Watergate), but what do you think? Have we lost something as a society/nation, and if so, what is it? Why did we lose it, and perhaps more importantly, what if anything can we do to get it back? Thanks for your thoughts.

- Mark

You know what we have lost? We've lost a common enemy. Americans have always been argumentative and diverse, even all the way back to Jamestown. We band together in times of danger, like "Imminent nuclear war with the USSR." We banded together under Bush to fight terrorists. Even though the war isn't popular now, it was then. It's all about common fears or common enemies.

 

[dangreco]

It has to do with Feminism, Political Correctness, Multiculturalism, Homosexualism, Anti-Christianism, and a total lack of personal responsibility in every aspect of our current society.

Actually, he's sort of right on some of it. There's nothing wrong with multiculturalism, etc. But there IS something wrong with giving minorities special treatment. Like that one time that a workers' promotion test was thrown out because no African-Americans passed it... That's just wrong.

But Accepting other cultures did not lead to America's "downfall."

 

[joe-bob]

But Accepting other cultures did not lead to America's "downfall."

Multi-culturalism has gone far beyond just acceptance and tolerance other cultures. Multi-culturalism today denigrates American culture and Christianity and holds up the cultures of innumerable others as preferable and inherently superior to the "evil" culture of the U.S. Rather than being a "melting pot" where peoples unite in commonality as Americans, people are now encouraged to reject American culture and society and substitute their own.

It is pernicious, dishonest, and destructive movement intended to undermine our society and security.

 

[dangreco]

Multi-culturalism has gone far beyond just acceptance and tolerance other cultures. Multi-culturalism today denigrates American culture and Christianity and holds up the cultures of innumerable others as preferable and inherently superior to the "evil" culture of the U.S. Rather than being a "melting pot" where peoples unite in commonality as Americans, people are now encouraged to reject American culture and society and substitute their own.

It is pernicious, dishonest, and destructive movement intended to undermine our society and security.

I agree that Anti-conservatives are bad, and those who claim Christianity is evil are bad.

 

[cj65]

I feel that affirmative action was never fair to either whites, browns or blacks. It should always be about talent, not skin color. To hire or promote on the basis of color is racism. Imagine if you were a purple person, and you and a pink person both took a competency test on your skills pertaining to your occupation. The highest score is to receive the promotion. Purple scores a 95% and Pink scores an 87%. Pink gets the promotion because there never has been a Pink in that level position before. They both know each others score. Will Purple have the same productivity level as he did before? Will Pink feel he deserved the promotion? Or will he forever second guess himself, knowing he should not have recieved the promotion?

I found that if I always help my kids with their homework, they lack self confidence. They spiral downward. If I make them do it, even if their score is a little lower, they know it was truly their work. I praise them for them doing the work all their own. I have noticed that their pride and confidence levels go way up, and so do their grades, and their entitlement skills go way down. I used to get, "I got bad grades because you did not help me enough with my homework!" Now, I get, "the class work is not that hard dad, I get my homework done in class." I had to get over the fear of my kids failing or getting bad grades.

 

[Lorien]

what is it?

I blame the eighties for this 'Age of Entitlement'.

 

[joe-bob]

I feel that affirmative action was never fair to either whites, browns or blacks. It should always be about talent, not skin color. To hire or promote on the basis of color is racism.

Yes, and the AA supporters have figured this out, so they have simply changed the name. The "new" affirmative action is called Diversity. Same thing--different name.

 

[stabman]

Multi-culturalism has gone far beyond just acceptance and tolerance other cultures. Multi-culturalism today denigrates American culture and Christianity and holds up the cultures of innumerable others as preferable and inherently superior to the "evil" culture of the U.S.

I hear that same complaint here, but it does not seem to be supported by my experience.
No one is closing down churches, banning Christmas, making pork illegal, or anything else which could be seen as an actual attack on the way society is.
I think the complaints are just due to the same thing which every generation does; thinking the country is going down the tubes.

 

[ratamahatta]

there's no honor amongst thieves........jmho........

 

[GWashington1732]

i believe the blame can be placed on the developement of the micro-processor. here in my part of so cal, all the kids , and half the adults, walk around with headsets on, texting on their celphone at the same time, laptops running in the car. how can there be any commonality when their biggest concern is the wonder of their own private worlds? the insulated, self-indulgent culture .............................b

This, definately contributes to it. Cell phones, texting, internet phones, video games, etc. are great technologies to have available but people can't control their usage of them. It becomes a problem when they can't live without them.

Some people can't go ten minutes without their cell phone, I don't even own one...at least, not one that hasn't met an untimely death against a concrete wall. In case you haven't noticed, it's pretty hard to even speak with someone who won't get off their phone for five minutes. And talking on them in the bathroom? What's that all about? I heard two people complaining about having to learn English the other day because today's language(texting, internet speak) is completely different. Oh well, the joke's on them, they will not have full control of their fingers in five or ten years from all that texting. Sorry, I just can't resist a good cell phone bashing paragraph.

Video games contribute to this too, I played a lot of video games from about the sixth grade to Sophmore year of high school. I'm still paying for all that wasted time in a lot of ways. I got most of my dexterity back and I lose control of my hands a lot less now but all that isolation just playing video games really messed me up. I never touch video games any more, though I will confess to the occasional game of virtual chess. Kids spend their whole lives playing guitar hero and they never develop normal social skills. Most even have games that they carry around with them, they never look up from them. With all the reliance on these technologies, what we end up with is not a country of people working to better themselves and society as a whole but a goup of people leading circular lifestyles, running a machine with no clear purpose or goals, what we end up with is, the Borg.

Resistance is futile.
Of coarse there's other political and social divisions created by our wonderful concepts of diversity that cause these issues, probably on the same level, but I won't go into that.