What happened??

[Wolfjohn]

On Monday this week, my close friend purchased his 12 year old grandson his first pocket knife for his birthday. It was a Buck Impulse (nothing fancy but nice). It was a great moment for Grandpa to give his grandson this gift....it soon went sour. I was amazed at the reaction of the boys father upon seeing the gift. He wasn't happy to say the least. He was quick to express that his son would NOT be allowed to carry it- just display it due to the possibility of him "accidentally" taking it to school or possibly injuring himself or a friend with it. The room fell silent....I literally stalled out on the comment. I had to question the father as to why he couldn't come to a compromise and TEACH his son the proper use and work with the rules (now in place at school) and for someone under 18 years of age. He wanted nothing to do with the issue and made that clear. He then had to go one step farther and tell the boys Grandpa "And please don't buy him any guns or stuff, we don't need that headache around here either." The look on my friend (Grandpa) was crushing...I felt for him. We both left not long after that and spoke on the way home about how times sure had changed. Every kid in school carried a knife back in our day, hell...we even brought our rifles to school to re-work the stocks before hunting season. I can't recall ever thinking anything about hurting anyone in school with either one. Apparently, this is no longer the way it's thought of in schools...how sad. Where did we go wrong on the teaching of our kids to respect each other in the use of such items and not feel a need to harm one another with them? It's an old thought that's been around I guess- even on this forum I'm sure but, somewhere I think as a society, we've dropped the ball on our kids. I'd like to hear your thoughts folks on this, what happened? What's the fix? Is there one? I know there's pop's and grandpas out there wanting to read of some thoughts of yours on this and please, make it serious because it is a serious note...this is our legacy here and a concern to all of us on here who are passionate about our knives and our kids.

 

[Charlie Mike]

I'll keep it short ... we have to throw the baby out with the bath water. If I say any more, this thread will get sent to Political.

 

[Bob W]

Buying a knife for a kid without the parents' permission? That's not cool...

Sounds like an OK compromise in the end. The boy gets to keep the knife, at least.

 

[Dekz]

It's simple really. It's easier to not allow knives than it is to teach proper responsibility.

The constant need to protect people from EVERYTHING has left an entire generation weak and naive.

 

[Masteroffajitas]

I'm sorry man. That's pretty sad. It's sad too see people think of tools as weapons. Even a joke, like, "What do you hack people up with those?" gets me a little, because they will see my spyderco para military as weapon more than anything else.

 

[Sep]

You and your close friend obviously spent your school years in an environment where there were no gangs nor drug dealers nor demented kids shooting the entire school. Carrying any sort of knife to school is plain illegal, let alone a gun. At least that's the way it is here in Indiana.

Due to gang-related problems, some schools take a draconian policy of "zero tolerance". This means if the kid takes the knife to school, even when it's plainly evident that it's unintentional (forgot to take the knife out after boy scout activities), they're gonna throw the book at him. He's at least going to juve and possibly even jail for something that trivial.

Today we also live in the age of litigation where there's no more "accident". Anything that goes wrong is always somebody's fault, and that somebody will in many cases got sued for millions of $. If that kid plays with the knife and nick his friend's finger, there's always a chance that the friends' parents is gonna sue.

What went wrong? Many parents choose to neglect their responsibilities to discipline their kids, while at the same time sue anybody who tries to. Indiana is about to pass a law protecting teacher from litigation for enforcing discipline at school; until that law passes any teacher brave enough to discipline his students is still open to lawsuits from parents alleging harassment.

 

[mmarkh]

The grandpa must have been on the mothers side or he would have known the reaction that he would get. Sounds like the father gave a knee jerk reaction. If only he realized that by teaching safety and responsibiltiy he would be helping his son. How tough do you think it would be for that boy to get a knife without his father knowing? I gave my son a knife at about that age and taught him to respect it and how to use it safely and responsibly. IMHO that is the way to avoid problems.

 

[PB Wilson]

An awful message to the kid is that his father doesn't trust him or respect him. Sad story all around.

 

[johnny reb]

Sheeple are taking over the world. I signed up for a real estate class at our local collage, and the Instructor told me I couldn`t bring my leatherman. He told me I should take it off my belt, and to go put in my truck.I just went home,never took the class. I`m too old to be treated like a kid.

 

[sticf]

what happened?

We have become victims of our own success. We have created a society that has less and less use for a "general cutting tool". With modern "easy opening" packages, preprocessed food and the like, the "need" to carry a knife every day for basic chores has gone down. When you couple that decrease in need with innovations in knife making over the past years, you get a recipe for misunderstanding.

What innovations? Pocket clips, thumb studs/holes, assisted opening (to name a few) all aid the user in getting a knife out of the pocket and into a usable position. The flip side is that they also help the non-knife people classify knives as weapons.

I truly believe that if you try keep children in the dark about things it becomes taboo, which is then interesting and exciting. Nothing made me want to smoke more than my father (a smoker) telling me that I could not. Hell if only for the reason of rebellion I started smoking. There were no mysteries about guns and knives in the house. Without the mystery, I never "played" with them.

Thanks for reading my wall of text,
STICF

 

[Charlie Mike]

Same with me. My mom said no on knives over and over... and also confiscated them over and over... which made me buy more

 

[not2sharp]

As much as I love guns and knives, I would not have given the kid a knife without prior approval from the parents. For me it is not a safety issue in the traditional sense. I am sure that if the grandfather handed the kid a knife it was because he was sure that the kid was mature enough to handle it. The real problem is that our society has turned knife ownership into a real minefield; and, if the kid should make the simple mistake of taking the thing to his prison-like school, he will be treated worse then Bernie Madoff. Under the present no-tolerance rules, the pocession of a knife by a minor implies the intent to commit mass murder. While there are plenty of 10 year olds who can safely be trusted with a knife, it is unfair to put them into a position that even most adults are hard pressed to navigate.

n2s

 

[mnyshrpknvs]

You and your close friend obviously spent your school years in an environment where there were no gangs nor drug dealers nor demented kids shooting the entire school. Carrying any sort of knife to school is plain illegal, let alone a gun. At least that's the way it is here in Indiana.

Due to gang-related problems, some schools take a draconian policy of "zero tolerance". This means if the kid takes the knife to school, even when it's plainly evident that it's unintentional (forgot to take the knife out after boy scout activities), they're gonna throw the book at him. He's at least going to juve and possibly even jail for something that trivial.

Today we also live in the age of litigation where there's no more "accident". Anything that goes wrong is always somebody's fault, and that somebody will in many cases got sued for millions of $. If that kid plays with the knife and nick his friend's finger, there's always a chance that the friends' parents is gonna sue.

What went wrong? Many parents choose to neglect their responsibilities to discipline their kids, while at the same time sue anybody who tries to. Indiana is about to pass a law protecting teacher from litigation for enforcing discipline at school; until that law passes any teacher brave enough to discipline his students is still open to lawsuits from parents alleging harassment.

Gangs, demented kids and drugs! At the end of the day, parents and the rest of influental society has failed their children. A child being harrassed at school, then coming home and locking themselves in their room is a disaster waiting to happen.

Parents need to be parents, NOT friends! The law and the government need to let parents be parents as well. Common sense has left the building with many parents today. If our society would quit acting like a small boo boo on the knee is the end of the world, kids would grow up with a spine and learn to stand on their own two feet.

Mommy and Daddy don't want to hurt their friend's(child's) feelings so they let them do what they want.:barf: Some parents ignore their kids all together.:thumbdn:Its a dirty shame and we can only blame society.

 

[dee bee]

More often then not i find myself surrounded by people i rather have nothing to do with after about 5 min. of getting to know them. I hate to say it, wonder if theres something wrong with me, but i dont think so.

 

[3mptin3ss]

I truly believe that if you try keep children in the dark about things it becomes taboo, which is then interesting and exciting. Nothing made me want to smoke more than my father (a smoker) telling me that I could not. Hell if only for the reason of rebellion I started smoking. There were no mysteries about guns and knives in the house. Without the mystery, I never "played" with them.

Same with me. My mom said no on knives over and over... and also confiscated them over and over... which made me buy more

yup, this is true. my mom was also a freak when it came to things like that. i remember having to go to flea markets and things like that with her all the time, and she just would not let me even touch any of the pocket knives id see people selling, let alone buy one. not even dull, used swiss army knives. the idea of her son even carrying any kind of knife, as if he is some kind of punk or gang member made her angry. her illogical thinking created a huge obsession with knives and weapons, as well as a variety of deeply rooted emotional problems which i will most likely never recover from

 

[Charlie Mike]

If I was a drinking man, I'd take you to the bar and buy the first round. :thumbup:

 

[Blindeyes]

I tell you where society went wrong. When I was a kid and I screwed up my mom used to hit us with my dads belt or wooden cooking spoon, if she couldn't get here hands on anything it was here hand. Now you cannot spank your child and the justice system lets them get away with murder.I have pointed out on this forum before about a case here in B.C. not long ago.
There was a kid at a party who got set about another kid with a hatchet, They didn't kill him but now he's a quadriplegic. All the courts did is give those punks 10 months probation, and the kid in the wheelchair will never work and will have to live off a crappy disability cheque from the government which wouldn't even pay his rent if he moved out.
Now don't get me wrong I know beating your kid isn't right ,but lack of discipline is a big growing trend.
I know what my parents did was discipline and I deserved it and know right from wrong.
Kids identity are protected when they are under 18 and they are literally getting away with murder, they know that the justice system can't harm them.

 

[Toyz]

I'm by no means an authority, but my take on what happened is a strong dependence on the government and others to take care of us, and no accountability.

As far as the fix - unfortunately, from where I am sitting, a MAJOR catastrophe that reminds everyone out there (sheeple) just how fragile things are and how self reliance is the only thing we can count on.

I always have a knife, flashlight and fire starter within reach.

I think forums like this and the many others out there help to keep hope alive. I know I am happy to see many people passionate about their knives and their rights.

 

[Pilot1]

It's simple really. It's easier to not allow knives than it is to teach proper responsibility.

The constant need to protect people from EVERYTHING has left an entire generation weak and naive.

That is a very succint observation and accurate too. We have sold our souls and lowered our quality of life in the name of "safety" when a little training and common sense use to be enough.

 

[A.P.F.]

As a Grandfather of four myself, I deeply sympathize with Wolfjohn's plight. No Grandfather should be taken to task for giving a young person a knife, which for centuries has represented a right of passage. Such actions rob a Grandparent of the respect that they should be accorded and the enjoyment of seeing the pride of owning a knife, on their Grandchilds face.

Frankly, this culture and society sucks. We have enacted so many cockamamy rules, that a person could spend half their life learning what they can't do, instead of all their life learning what they can do. I don't see any quick fix, neither do I see any single cause of this ridiculous situation.

There used to be a saying here in Canada, 'A Canadian can tell you ten reasons why something can't be done, whereas an American will give you one reason why it can be done'. Lately, I don't see the distinction anymore.

As for myself, I am old enough to practice the "Don't cast your pearls before swine" principle. If it wasn't for the like minded people on this forum (both young and old), I would be even nuttier than I already am.