What happened??

[Lanza]

A sad state of affairs, indeed.

 

[MikeC]

KUDOS, to Cuts Like A Kris, chest out and taking a proactive attitude. Way to go man, we need more like you Sir.

 

[Josh K]

Same with me. My mom said no on knives over and over... and also confiscated them over and over... which made me buy more

Almost exactly like my dear old mum. I remember keeping a couple under the mattress and avoiding the ones with pocket clips as those were easier to spot.

In reponse to the OP, it's far far easier to simple ignore something then take the time to teach a child how to be responsible for something. Kids these days are (I'm generalizing, don't jump me here) taught very little about life. Little emphesis on truth and responsibility. It takes time to learn and most are seemingly unwilling to put in the effort.

I recall an international camporee type deal with the scouts, and a troop of them (from Denmark or Scotland I believe, correct me if I'm wrong) all carried 5" fixed blade knives in nice leather sheaths on their belts. Standard from where they came from, but in Michigan they all got a very stern talking to from the leaders organizing the event. Quite a sad state of affairs I must say.

 

[waterdogs]

This story is a sad (but typical) commentary on our social state of affairs...to say that this particular father-son relationship is "lacking quality" would be an understatement. If this is what a "kinder, gentler, more politically-correct America" brings us, God help us all....

 

[orca8589]

My sons cub scout pack gives the new boys a folder every year at one of the pack meetings. They have the Boy Scouts come in and teach them knife safety and Whittling. Its a awesome night.

You're right - I checked with our council this morning, and it's more of a local Pack policy than a national BSA policy. This is my first year as a Cubmaster, so I'm (daily) learning little things like this. (Our Council rep is very supportive of this issue, boys having knives & getting trained. :thumbup: )

thx - cpr

 

[orca8589]

the only law on the books about weapons by school grounds only covers carrying a hand gun improperly, and there is an exemption to the law if you live within the 1000 feet 'school zone" rifles are not mentioned and you could drive right next to a school on your way to or from with properly stored handguns and long guns.

You are correct - I found out this morning that basically, I can't "openly" carry, unless I'm a LEO. There's more to it, but that's it in a nutshell.

thx - cpr

 

[spidyman]

Sounds like the father needs to be taken out behind the wood shed.

IMO the Grandfather had every right to give his grandson a knife or any other tool for that matter w/o prior parental consent; the fact that the father got P.O.'ed tells me him and the Grandfather need to have a long talk.

It doesn't matter what the father feels or thinks his actions were INAPPROPRIATE to say the least. If he doesn't like the knife so be it but don't go ballistic in public about it, handle it later much more discretely if need be. Personally I would have taken the child aside had a talk with him and then left WITH the knife in MY pocket and kept it for use at MY house where its MY rules and then return it to the child at a later date w/o the father around.

I was shooting on my fathers lap a .22 pistol @ 3yrs, a .22 rifle @ 5 and got my own for Christmas @ 10 along with a Buck 112 Ranger, then at 11 I got my own full size 400cc Four wheeler (Polaris sportsman).

The current society of sheeple and pansy, gut-less hypocrites make me sick!

 

[allenC]

On Monday this week, my close friend purchased his 12 year old grandson his first pocket knife for his birthday. It was a Buck Impulse (nothing fancy but nice). It was a great moment for Grandpa to give his grandson this gift....it soon went sour. I was amazed at the reaction of the boys father upon seeing the gift. He wasn't happy to say the least. He was quick to express that his son would NOT be allowed to carry it- just display it due to the possibility of him "accidentally" taking it to school or possibly injuring himself or a friend with it.

This is actually a very complex matter to deal with....

I don't think that we know enough about the kid to really judge whether the father was right or wrong.

I have met 12 year old kids who I would be perfectly fine trusting with a knife or a gun.
But I have also met some 12 year old kids (and older kids, and even some adults) who I would NEVER trust with a knife...and a firearm would be out of the question.

For all we know the 12 year old might have a history of violence or uncontrolled anger problems.
I'm very hesitant to second guess a man when it comes to that man's own son.
In other words, the father might be right on this one.

Looking back on my own childhood I can see that not every kid can be trusted to do the right thing with a knife....

My father taught me about knives at a very early age and I carried a knife since I was about 7 years old.
I was taught the usual things...how to sharpen the knife, how to safely use a knife, how to maintain a knife, how to clean a knife, how to whittle, how to respect the knife and always be safe, and how to never use the knife to hurt anyone, etc...

But when I was in the 7th grade I had a problem with a few guys at school.
One day several of them had surrounded me after school (I was waiting for my mother to pick me up) and threatened to stomp me in to the dirt.
Well, the fist started flying and, being out-numbered (and not that big anyway), I was getting the crap beat out of me.
So what did I do?
I pulled out the hawkbill I was carrying and cut one of the boys across his chest.
The tide started to turn after a few of them ran away, and I pinned one down....I was so enraged that I fully intended to kill the boy with my knife.
Luckily for me and the boy, the football coach came along at that moment and snatched the knife from my hand and then snatched me off the other boy.
Of course the coach wasn't there to see the other kids who had ran off earlier, so I was the one who got in to trouble (even though they could see my bloody nose, black eye, and the bruises on my face and body).
Instead, I was the one who had "an anger problem" and had to see the shrink for a year.
And I was the one that had all of that in my school record all through Jr. high school and high school.

I sometimes wonder what would have happened if that coach hadn't been there to stop me.

 

[glennbad]

As a former cub scout leader, I had the priviledge of working with my boys on their whittling chip card. I announced to the parents what I was going to do, and if any felt uncomfortable, their son didn't have to do it. We started out with dull paring knives and soap bars. I had also acquired some used cub scout knives off ebay, which the boys used in their training. I had taped up the blade edge so they could get more comfortable handling them. I taught them the safe use and care of pocket knives, and none of the boys ever cut themselves in my presence. I let the boys keep the knives afterward. I agree that it's all in the presentation, if the parents feel boxed-in, they might resist because they weren't consulted first.



I had a co-worker of mine tell me that his 7 year old daughter had gotten into his tool chest in the barn and managed to cut herself with one of his knives. He's a hunter and outdoorsman, but I'm sure they probably yelled at their girl some for doing that. I suggested that rather than being upset at her, he should show her the proper use and handling of a knife. It was probably curiousity that got her in that mess, and he should show her that knives aren't dangerous when handled properly. He hadn't thought of it that way, and liked the idea. I even gave him a pink SAK classic to give to her (under his rules, of course) and some knife safety paperwork to go over with her.

To the OP... it's sad to see things happen that way. A child's first knife from a grandparent is a special thing indeed. It doesn't sound like talking to the father beforehand would have changed the outcome any.

Glenn

 

[Hawkings]

Sounds like the father needs to be taken out behind the wood shed.

IMO the Grandfather had every right to give his grandson a knife or any other tool for that matter w/o prior parental consent; the fact that the father got P.O.'ed tells me him and the Grandfather need to have a long talk.

It doesn't matter what the father feels or thinks his actions were INAPPROPRIATE to say the least. If he doesn't like the knife so be it but don't go ballistic in public about it, handle it later much more discretely if need be. Personally I would have taken the child aside had a talk with him and then left WITH the knife in MY pocket and kept it for use at MY house where its MY rules and then return it to the child at a later date w/o the father around.

I was shooting on my fathers lap a .22 pistol @ 3yrs, a .22 rifle @ 5 and got my own for Christmas @ 10 along with a Buck 112 Ranger, then at 11 I got my own full size 400cc Four wheeler (Polaris sportsman).

The current society of sheeple and pansy, gut-less hypocrites make me sick!

That's a pretty fast way of ending up not seeing a loved grandchild any more.

 

[cj65]

I think this is tragic, I wish my grandpa would have given me a knife at 12, I could that have that heirloom instead of his retirement watch to remember him by. However, my 11 yr. old kids have Aspberger's syndrome, and I do not believe they are quite ready. The knives will be shown to the wrong kids, at the wrong time, and it just does not work right now. I fight with that decision, but I just have to wait and see how they act at 12 for a teen present. As far as what is wrong.....I think that with prayers taken out of schools, teaching evolutionary theory-percieved as factual, and a liberal adenda has beaten traditional values down to a quivering little rodent. We need to fight back somehow against that tide. I do with my children, they learn that if they work hard and act responsibly, they get more freedom to do as they please. When they do not act responsibly they lose priviledge and free time. It really starts at home. I let my kids know that they need to think for themselves when they grow up, and not let someone tell them how to live thier life in a free country.

 

[pinetree]

The boy is 12! I gave my neighbor a Kabar Little Finn last October (he is 7). He had a wardrobe malfunction with his Halloween costume and was hanging out all sad at my fire-pit. Of course I asked his dad if it was ok. Heck I have 12 y.o. niece that hunts with a 243... is the kid challenged?

 

[BOrrell]

Better turnout. Was elk hunting last year and one of our party's son and grandson showed up to do some deer hunting; the father had the kid sharpening a pissy assed little pocket knife the night before the hunt; it kept bothering me and I remembered that I had a good Buck fixed blade that usually brought incase some forgot or lost their knife. So the next morning I gave it to the kid; had a happy grandpa, father and son! but spend time in schools so know what you mean; in one school district they have the paranoid rules; the other(mostly rural) it is not an issue; most of the boys have a clip on their pocket; I usually have a small SOG flash that I carry in both districts but don't display it.

 

[midnight flyer]

These are always weird threads. I find it difficult to see how someone would have a hard time understanding that the PARENTS have right to raise their child as they see fit, not the GRANDPARENTS. Who or what gives grandparents special rights and privileges to dictate how a someone else's child is raised.

Did it ever occur to some that the parent may have simply thought the kid wasn't ready, but caught by surprise at having seen his kiddo with and edged tool he handled the situation badly? I got my first pocket knife at 7. After a lot of training and warning from my Dad, I was ready to keep it in my pocket on my own. At about 7 1/2, for some strange reason I cut the side of my Mom's drainboard.

My father determined I was not ready to keep a knife, and after a good ass whipping, took the knife away for about 6 months. Apparently, my father was right! (My grandfather got a good chuckle out of the whole thing.)

How do you know that the kid's parents didn't just come back from one of the endless parent training classes that tell them if their child is caught on campus with a knife, gun, mace, or anything else that could be a weapon the child is permanently suspended from the district?

Things have changed. I went to a school where a lot of us carried pocket knives. We didn't know that we were supposed to flash them around, brag about them or otherwise show off so we could scare "sheeple". I had plenty of respect for those that didn't own or care for knives. Mine stayed in my pocket.

Many times too, during hunting or bird season, you would see a .30/.30 or a shotgun in the gun rack in the trucks at the high school parking lot. The football coach would come get you, make you put it in the floorboards or behind the seat, with a warning that it was his if he saw you do that again.

All of those things come into play now, about the difference between now and then. But in the end, it all comes down to respect. Do you respect the wishes of someone else, another parent say, on how a child is to be raised?

I had to ask this of my own father when he was pissed off at my sister's handling of my nephew: Who in the f$ck would you have listened to if they told you how to raise your kids? Who? Anyone? Anyone at all? I think not. Your reaction when some one just commented was to get all pissed off about people that can't mind their own business. Relatives were treated with even less tolerance.

So I asked him, "why do you expect you daughter to listen to you?"

Like I said, these threads are weird. A lot of you guys preach loudly about having and teaching respect for other people, or notice the lack thereof, but seem to have little for others.

Robert

 

[mnyshrpknvs]

These are always weird threads. I find it difficult to see how someone would have a hard time understanding that the PARENTS have right to raise their child as they see fit, not the GRANDPARENTS. Who or what gives grandparents special rights and privileges to dictate how a someone else's child is raised.

Did it ever occur to some that the parent may have simply thought the kid wasn't ready, but caught by surprise at having seen his kiddo with and edged tool he handled the situation badly? I got my first pocket knife at 7. After a lot of training and warning from my Dad, I was ready to keep it in my pocket on my own. At about 7 1/2, for some strange reason I cut the side of my Mom's drainboard.

My father determined I was not ready to keep a knife, and after a good ass whipping, took the knife away for about 6 months. Apparently, my father was right! (My grandfather got a good chuckle out of the whole thing.)

How do you know that the kid's parents didn't just come back from one of the endless parent training classes that tell them if their child is caught on campus with a knife, gun, mace, or anything else that could be a weapon the child is permanently suspended from the district?

Things have changed. I went to a school where a lot of us carried pocket knives. We didn't know that we were supposed to flash them around, brag about them or otherwise show off so we could scare "sheeple". I had plenty of respect for those that didn't own or care for knives. Mine stayed in my pocket.

Many times too, during hunting or bird season, you would see a .30/.30 or a shotgun in the gun rack in the trucks at the high school parking lot. The football coach would come get you, make you put it in the floorboards or behind the seat, with a warning that it was his if he saw you do that again.

All of those things come into play now, about the difference between now and then. But in the end, it all comes down to respect. Do you respect the wishes of someone else, another parent say, on how a child is to be raised?

I had to ask this of my own father when he was pissed off at my sister's handling of my nephew: Who in the f$ck would you have listened to if they told you how to raise your kids? Who? Anyone? Anyone at all? I think not. Your reaction when some one just commented was to get all pissed off about people that can't mind their own business. Relatives were treated with even less tolerance.

So I asked him, "why do you expect you daughter to listen to you?"

Like I said, these threads are weird. A lot of you guys preach loudly about having and teaching respect for other people, or notice the lack thereof, but seem to have little for others.

Robert

Maybe the father SHOULD have been an adult in the situation and handled it respectfully and descretely! Parents do have the authaurity over their children, but he sure did not show respect for his elder(father/father-in law).I'm sure that child will remember how his dad freaked out on his grandfather in front of everyone and THAT is not a good example of how to raise a child!

My grandfather taught me all I know about guns at an early age(6) and I feel he did a damn good job. If it wouldn't have been for him, I would have grown up in the dark about safety and usage of firearms. He also bought me my first knife at the age of 8. Showed me everything I needed to know about safe carring and cutting. Educating our young should be TOP priority in every aspect of life. Its to bad many are being short changed by the parent who is to busy with work and to tired after to teach kids themselves. I guess its good that grandparents have more time to do those kind of things. After all, they are good enough to babysit when needed!

 

[MikeC]

Midnight Flyer, your Father should have whipped your a$$ again for speaking to him like that. Grand parents are there to assit the parents, notice I didn't say be the parents but your parents i.e. grand parents are their to help you. Notice there not called Grand Friends, their your mom and dad for petes sake, these are not strangers and if you think they have no influence on your children are how your children are raised, you need help. Do think your Father isn't your Dad anymore because your older now, now he's your friend. Sure the nature of the relationship changes as time goes by and you may grow to become friends but these people are and always will be your parents. If they still have all their faculties and they tell you or ask you to do something, you do it. Just because you get older, you don't talk to your parents like that it is disrespectful. Honor thy Father and Mother, that doesn't mean until you get to be of legal age, that pretty much means as long as your alive. Notice there isn't much in the good book about honoring your children, ask yourself why that is? It's is not your parents place to honor you it is their job to raise you up in the way and look after you which includes giving you advice and guidance on how to raise your children when and if you have them.

 

[Big Bo]

Good one. You should have been at the table when I gave my 5yr old a BB gun. At the table was my mom, two sisters and the wife and daughter.

 

[John T Wylie Jr]

I think 12 is a bit young to own a knife, or a gun or bow.

I don't think an age generalization can be made , I trust my 9 yr old son with a rifle , knife or bow more than I trust most adults that I know. Why ? Because he had things like safety , control and responsibility explained in depth before he fired a shot , made a cut or fired the first arrow , and he understands , if it is in his control , he is accountable for what he does with it. He is never unsupervised with any of these items , but he still understands how to handle and treat his bow , his knives and his rifles.

Even my 6 yr old has had plenty of trigger time on a 22 bolt action , has his own bow ( as do all 3 of my sons ) , and they each have knives as well. ( again not to be handled when I am not around ).

Each week or so we have safe day , where we empty the guns & knives from the safe and they are handled , questioned on where the mechanical safety is ( yes they understand between mechanical safety and non-mechanical - meaning between the ears ).

What happened to change the way youths are treated ? Society changed , now when both parents are working in most families , the supervision , guidance and discipline is not there in many households.

Sit down , talk with your kids , inform them about safety. Knives are just like scissors , if they can use one , they can use the other.

Years ago , Uncle Mick sent each of my sons a fixed blade for Christmas , my wife never got miffed ( well except that she didn't get one ). Kids react , the way you react to them , you show them love , respect and courtesy , and you will very likely recieve the same back.

Many will pass their fears onto their children , I say good on gramps for giving the gift he did. Someone needs to teach the future generations , that life aint a video game , knives , tools , bows and other items are not to be feared , but respected.

now about those kids and knives...

 

[allenC]

Maybe the father SHOULD have been an adult in the situation and handled it respectfully and descretely! Parents do have the authaurity over their children, but he sure did not show respect for his elder(father/father-in law).

Perhaps the grandpa is an idiot.
Or perhaps the grandpa is constantly undermining the father's teaching.
Or perhaps the grandpa did not deserve respect.
Just because someone is older than me, that does not automatically get my respect.

The simple fact of the matter is that we don't know enough about the kid, the grandfather, or the father of the kid, to make a good call in this instance.

 

[allenC]

I don't think an age generalization can be made , I trust my 9 yr old son with a rifle , knife or bow more than I trust most adults that I know. Why ? Because he had things like safety , control and responsibility explained in depth before he fired a shot , made a cut or fired the first arrow , and he understands , if it is in his control , he is accountable for what he does with it. He is never unsupervised with any of these items , but he still understands how to handle and treat his bow , his knives and his rifles.

Even my 6 yr old has had plenty of trigger time on a 22 bolt action , has his own bow ( as do all 3 of my sons ) , and they each have knives as well. ( again not to be handled when I am not around ).

So you trust them with knives and guns....but only if you're around or they're being supervised?

That's not really "trust", is it?


But your parenting skills are good.
You should not trust them at those ages with knives and guns while unsupervised.
Young children, even 12 year olds, still have trouble controlling their emotions, and their judgement is, more often than not, poor.