Allen Blade
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my apologies
[This message has been edited by Allen Blade (edited 02-07-2000).]
[This message has been edited by Allen Blade (edited 02-07-2000).]
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What has happened to TRADITIONAL KNIFEMAKING!!
- Thread starter Allen Blade
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Allen.
There are many that feel the same way that you do, and many more that don't know and don't care. Will handmade/ sole authorship knives always be in demand, from quality makers? Yes, of course, for those willing to pay the price. Others are willing to pay for a name, and don't care how they are made, or by who. It's a decision you makers have to make, as well as the buyer. What is dead wrong is to miss-represent your product, and call it something that it's not. If your dealing with a maker for the first time, the customer needs to ask how the knife was made, with what materials, and by who. Simply put, "Caveat Emptor!"
Qualtiy will never go out of style.
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"Will work 4 Knives!"
There are many that feel the same way that you do, and many more that don't know and don't care. Will handmade/ sole authorship knives always be in demand, from quality makers? Yes, of course, for those willing to pay the price. Others are willing to pay for a name, and don't care how they are made, or by who. It's a decision you makers have to make, as well as the buyer. What is dead wrong is to miss-represent your product, and call it something that it's not. If your dealing with a maker for the first time, the customer needs to ask how the knife was made, with what materials, and by who. Simply put, "Caveat Emptor!"
Qualtiy will never go out of style.
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"Will work 4 Knives!"
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- Aug 1, 1999
- Messages
- 3,036
There's still some of us around. My shop contains a cheap little band saw, an even cheaper drill press, a couple grinders and a couple buffers (those last two items were not cheap), and a vise. Frankly I'd love to have some more equipment though. I just don't have time to do with a file some of the things a nice milling machine can do in a heartbeat (assuming I knew how to use one, which I don't).
I'm not sure where that line should be drawn, but I hope it's well beyond the equipment I use.
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Jerry Hossom
knifemaker
www.hossom.com
I'm not sure where that line should be drawn, but I hope it's well beyond the equipment I use.
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Jerry Hossom
knifemaker
www.hossom.com
- Joined
- Aug 11, 1999
- Messages
- 1,111
Steve Mullin, whos been making knives for 25 years -- full-time most of that time -- offers the most balanced opinion Ive read on the matter. He doesnt see the various knifemaking techniques you point to as mutually opposed, traditional vs. factory. In his Note on Authorship, he sees room for both, and for good reasons, IMO. Here are some thoughtful (IMO) excerpts:
I personally come down squarely on both sides of this issue. To claim that knives made using computers are not handmade is literally true, but what knives are? Is a milling machine a hand tool? How about a pantograph or belt grinder? The real question is who made the knife. My feeling is that the person who guides the tool makes the part, whether that is done by pushing a file against steel or putting a program on a floppy.
[...] I have made these identical knives in my shop using templates and my milling machine and it's not a problem, but they cost $400 instead of $300. [...M]y feeling is that with working knives you are buying the product not the process and shouldn't care how it is made. A collector piece should be individual not mass produced so there is really no conflict here. Mass production produces less expensive goods but is only cost effective on large quantities. If a maker is producing large numbers of identical model X knives, who cares how they are made? It is still mass production. If you're buying a mass produced item you should want the maker to use the most cost effective technology and offer it at the lowest price. If you want a one of a kind knife, look at my custom folders and fixed blade knives.
For the entire text, see: www.mullin-custom-knives.com/prkco.html
Great work and nice website, and all-round good guy, Steve Mullin is. I believe he deserves more attention.
Glen
I personally come down squarely on both sides of this issue. To claim that knives made using computers are not handmade is literally true, but what knives are? Is a milling machine a hand tool? How about a pantograph or belt grinder? The real question is who made the knife. My feeling is that the person who guides the tool makes the part, whether that is done by pushing a file against steel or putting a program on a floppy.
[...] I have made these identical knives in my shop using templates and my milling machine and it's not a problem, but they cost $400 instead of $300. [...M]y feeling is that with working knives you are buying the product not the process and shouldn't care how it is made. A collector piece should be individual not mass produced so there is really no conflict here. Mass production produces less expensive goods but is only cost effective on large quantities. If a maker is producing large numbers of identical model X knives, who cares how they are made? It is still mass production. If you're buying a mass produced item you should want the maker to use the most cost effective technology and offer it at the lowest price. If you want a one of a kind knife, look at my custom folders and fixed blade knives.
For the entire text, see: www.mullin-custom-knives.com/prkco.html
Great work and nice website, and all-round good guy, Steve Mullin is. I believe he deserves more attention.
Glen
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- Sep 23, 1999
- Messages
- 5,855
Hey Allen, if this means you're selling your belt grinders, drill presses, buffers, heat treat ovens, or anything else except your hand tools, I bet alot of Forumites would love a shot at buying them. Personally, I need a good heat treat oven!! Take care! Michael
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"Always think of your fellow knife makers as partners in the search for the perfect blade, not as people trying to compete with you and your work!"
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"Always think of your fellow knife makers as partners in the search for the perfect blade, not as people trying to compete with you and your work!"
- Joined
- Nov 24, 1999
- Messages
- 4,981
I guess I'm still in the category you call handmade. My tools pretty much consist of a drill press,4x36 beltsander,and a small wood only bandsaw. Other than that my knifemaking tools are hand tools. A milling machine would be nice since I just started to try making lockbacks, but for now this is all for fun so how can I justify spending over $1000 on one tool? I think the closest I'll get to a bridgeport is to put a milling table on my drill press and guide things out by hand.But that would mean a new drill press becasue the one I'm using now doesn't have a tight enough spindle. With some more experience I don't think needle files are going to make the job take that long and they're a whole lot cheaper. It is hard to get that precision fit that a milling machine would make though. But when I finally get everything figured out and can hand someone a knife and say I made this out of that hunk of barstock over there I'm going to have something to be proud of. I don't think it would be the same to say I drew this and told my computer to make it.
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Fix it right the first time, use Baling Wire !
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Fix it right the first time, use Baling Wire !
- Joined
- Nov 6, 1999
- Messages
- 2,639
Allen, It certainly seems like traditional knifemaking is less and less important or prevalent nowadays. But I am sure you realize their are a lot of makers out their doing it the old fashioned way (e.g. Dan Winkler, Jerry Fisk, Jim Crowell, etc). I prefer knives made the old way. I am also willing to pay for the makers time. I prefer sole authorship to a maker who grinds and fits others steel. I prefer forging to stock removal (understanding that some stock removal is always necessary). But that is my taste. Not everyone's.
Some makers like Darrel Ralph and Steve Mullin make knives by many techniques, ancient and modern.
There was a great thread started by Ken Onion two months ago re laser cut parts. It started a real good discussion involving many well known makers:
www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000504.html
This is what I said near the end of the thread:
I am Not opposed to high tech machinery, CNC milling, CAD design, or technology of any sort. This equipment makes things better, faster, more efficiently, and improves the profit margin, particulary when making a lot of the same kind of thing.
However, in my own collecting, I buy mostly one-of-a-kind fixed blade forged knives. I am willing to Pay for the time of the maker. I think how and why something was made Matters. I like hand-made things created with a minimum of technology.
I don't own any of Ken's knives, but I do have a Kershaw mini-task knife that Ken designed. I love it. I think RJ Martin, and Darrel Ralph, and George Tichborne expressed the ideas I agree with best. Be honest with the customer. If the customer is a crazy like me who wants everything hand-made, then do it that way and charge accordingly. If your customers want really good, precision engineered knives, and you want to sell a lot of them, then use all the technology you want.
I think Both viewpoints have their place. But remember, the Customer is Always right.That's where the money comes from. Just be up front about the techniques that were used if asked.
Paracelsus 26 December 1999
Some makers like Darrel Ralph and Steve Mullin make knives by many techniques, ancient and modern.
There was a great thread started by Ken Onion two months ago re laser cut parts. It started a real good discussion involving many well known makers:
www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000504.html
This is what I said near the end of the thread:
I am Not opposed to high tech machinery, CNC milling, CAD design, or technology of any sort. This equipment makes things better, faster, more efficiently, and improves the profit margin, particulary when making a lot of the same kind of thing.
However, in my own collecting, I buy mostly one-of-a-kind fixed blade forged knives. I am willing to Pay for the time of the maker. I think how and why something was made Matters. I like hand-made things created with a minimum of technology.
I don't own any of Ken's knives, but I do have a Kershaw mini-task knife that Ken designed. I love it. I think RJ Martin, and Darrel Ralph, and George Tichborne expressed the ideas I agree with best. Be honest with the customer. If the customer is a crazy like me who wants everything hand-made, then do it that way and charge accordingly. If your customers want really good, precision engineered knives, and you want to sell a lot of them, then use all the technology you want.
I think Both viewpoints have their place. But remember, the Customer is Always right.That's where the money comes from. Just be up front about the techniques that were used if asked.
Paracelsus 26 December 1999
Les Robertson
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Allen,
Don't thump your chest too hard. I suspect you use a band saw, drill press and possibly a grinder.
I suspect when these machines first became available for a knife maker to use in the privacy of their shop, the lament you express was expressed as well then "My god man, what has happenend to the old time quality. When a maker used a hack saw blade to cut out a blank and used a file to get the profile and then sharpened it on a stone".
Time and technology march on. Example, Warren Osborne who is one of the finest folder makers in the world. He makes a top lock tactical folder (acutally a couple different types). One is made using laser cut parts he put Osborne in the boomarang and LT underneath to signify a laser was used. Price is $475.00
He then makes the same knife where he cuts out all the parts and sells that knife for $625.00.
Once completed these knives look identical. Which one, on average, do you think the consumer picks. You guessed it! I think Ill save my $150 and get that LT model.
You lose no quality, function, fit or finish.
As Steve Mullin so acurately pointed out, for many of the tactical models, which must use some of this technology for the customer to afford the knife and the maker to make a living wage, people care about the product not the procedure.
Now Allen I will agree with you that "art" knives or one-of-a-kind type knives, everything should be done by hand. Generally, this doesn't seem to be a problem as most of the makers involved in making expensive knives work them one at a time.
The reality of the custom knife market today is such that, much like Corporate America; if you don't provide it someone else will.
Allen, the CNC, Laser, EDM, Wire, etc. are nothing more than one machine replacing another.
For those who can afford these machines and know how to use them, can continue to provide a quality product at an even more affordable price than their competitor.
Exception quality and superior value at a fair price will always sell a product, no matter what it is.
Les
Don't thump your chest too hard. I suspect you use a band saw, drill press and possibly a grinder.
I suspect when these machines first became available for a knife maker to use in the privacy of their shop, the lament you express was expressed as well then "My god man, what has happenend to the old time quality. When a maker used a hack saw blade to cut out a blank and used a file to get the profile and then sharpened it on a stone".
Time and technology march on. Example, Warren Osborne who is one of the finest folder makers in the world. He makes a top lock tactical folder (acutally a couple different types). One is made using laser cut parts he put Osborne in the boomarang and LT underneath to signify a laser was used. Price is $475.00
He then makes the same knife where he cuts out all the parts and sells that knife for $625.00.
Once completed these knives look identical. Which one, on average, do you think the consumer picks. You guessed it! I think Ill save my $150 and get that LT model.
You lose no quality, function, fit or finish.
As Steve Mullin so acurately pointed out, for many of the tactical models, which must use some of this technology for the customer to afford the knife and the maker to make a living wage, people care about the product not the procedure.
Now Allen I will agree with you that "art" knives or one-of-a-kind type knives, everything should be done by hand. Generally, this doesn't seem to be a problem as most of the makers involved in making expensive knives work them one at a time.
The reality of the custom knife market today is such that, much like Corporate America; if you don't provide it someone else will.
Allen, the CNC, Laser, EDM, Wire, etc. are nothing more than one machine replacing another.
For those who can afford these machines and know how to use them, can continue to provide a quality product at an even more affordable price than their competitor.
Exception quality and superior value at a fair price will always sell a product, no matter what it is.
Les
- Joined
- Jul 30, 1999
- Messages
- 724
Allen,
Posting your methods as good, to sell your knives is one thing. Putting down the methods of others to sell your knives is something a little different.
I feel my method of making knives is probably very close to your method. However, I don't think if they were different, I should say yours methods suck.
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Lynn Griffith-Knifemaker
BG-42 is now an option
griffithknives.com
GriffithKN@aol.com
Griffith Knives Forum
Posting your methods as good, to sell your knives is one thing. Putting down the methods of others to sell your knives is something a little different.
I feel my method of making knives is probably very close to your method. However, I don't think if they were different, I should say yours methods suck.
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Lynn Griffith-Knifemaker
BG-42 is now an option
griffithknives.com
GriffithKN@aol.com
Griffith Knives Forum
I dunno what happende to the traditional ways but I think that people now mass produce and use factories to make knives because of the high damand also this way knives can be cheaper for those who dont want to buy a perfectly made handmade knife.
I am not dissing on any companies that use this method because so many do but just Custom knives are better and I think they all know it..
I am not dissing on any companies that use this method because so many do but just Custom knives are better and I think they all know it..
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I have not had a customer question my knifemaking procedures. After the design, they look at fit finish and overall quality. Then price is factored in. If I could pass a few $$$ along in savings because I had the blanks lazered out, I don't think anyone would have a problem with that.
For me, using several high tech machines increases my design capabilities. I'm sure you would agree that being able to saw Talonite like butter would have its advantages
What are your feelings in designing with CAD instead of pencil and paper??
Neil
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Blackwood Knives
More knives in stock soon!
http://www.geocities.com/Eureka/Meeting/5520/index.html
For me, using several high tech machines increases my design capabilities. I'm sure you would agree that being able to saw Talonite like butter would have its advantages
Neil
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Blackwood Knives
More knives in stock soon!
http://www.geocities.com/Eureka/Meeting/5520/index.html
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WOW! Looks like Allen is on a roll!
I think I understand where you are coming from Allen but it all depends on your perspective. You are perhaps one of the finest blade grinders anyone has ever seen. I really mean that or you and I would not have talked about a project I have in the works.
I stand down to Les Robertson as far as knowledge here as he has forgotten more about particular knife makers than I will ever know.
What I do know is that makers chose to use particular pieces of machinery to aid in the production of their knives. After reading Les's post above, who is to say in a few years that people will not look back and say "What happened to the good 'ole days of using CNC?".
3D Laser holographic CAM devices may make it possible for a maker to produce a damn near perfect replication of an original.
There will always be those makers who embrace the past methodology of knife making. There will also be those who embrace new technology to produce some really cool designs.
It is the market who creates the demand, and I, like you, will see it as a sad day when traditional knife making is nowhere to be found.
Also keep in mind that fault can be found in how you make your knives. Do you forge your own steel? Damascus? Do you make your own screws, pivots or handle material?
Some makers still do, but most do not.
Right or wrong the market controls what makes it or not. Again it depends on your perspective as to whether that is right or wrong.
An old saying that I made up is this.
Sometimes the grass looks greener on the other side, but sometimes that could mean there is a septic tank underground full of ****.
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Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
CLICK ON THE LINK BELOW RIGHT NOW! YOU WILL BE GLAD YOU DID!
www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum8/HTML/001202.html
I think I understand where you are coming from Allen but it all depends on your perspective. You are perhaps one of the finest blade grinders anyone has ever seen. I really mean that or you and I would not have talked about a project I have in the works.
I stand down to Les Robertson as far as knowledge here as he has forgotten more about particular knife makers than I will ever know.
What I do know is that makers chose to use particular pieces of machinery to aid in the production of their knives. After reading Les's post above, who is to say in a few years that people will not look back and say "What happened to the good 'ole days of using CNC?".
3D Laser holographic CAM devices may make it possible for a maker to produce a damn near perfect replication of an original.
There will always be those makers who embrace the past methodology of knife making. There will also be those who embrace new technology to produce some really cool designs.
It is the market who creates the demand, and I, like you, will see it as a sad day when traditional knife making is nowhere to be found.
Also keep in mind that fault can be found in how you make your knives. Do you forge your own steel? Damascus? Do you make your own screws, pivots or handle material?
Some makers still do, but most do not.
Right or wrong the market controls what makes it or not. Again it depends on your perspective as to whether that is right or wrong.
An old saying that I made up is this.
Sometimes the grass looks greener on the other side, but sometimes that could mean there is a septic tank underground full of ****.
------------------
Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
CLICK ON THE LINK BELOW RIGHT NOW! YOU WILL BE GLAD YOU DID!
www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum8/HTML/001202.html
- Joined
- Nov 8, 1998
- Messages
- 770
Let's not forget that most knives sold are to people who want a useful tool. We are a bunch of whackos who worship artifacts ......it is great that there is a part of the industry that "respects" us and supplies some of our needs.
If the tool-using part of humanity (and we DO seem to use them as a screen for our unhealthy desires) decided knives were overpriced because they were all made by men (or women) using creek stones as tools, we would not even have this place to share our sickness..
Be grateful......
BTW.....couldn't decide on a smilie....add one of your favorites.
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BrianWE
Believe me....being this old and having to live with all this experience is not the picnic I thought it was going to be.
If the tool-using part of humanity (and we DO seem to use them as a screen for our unhealthy desires) decided knives were overpriced because they were all made by men (or women) using creek stones as tools, we would not even have this place to share our sickness..
Be grateful......
BTW.....couldn't decide on a smilie....add one of your favorites.
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BrianWE
Believe me....being this old and having to live with all this experience is not the picnic I thought it was going to be.
- Joined
- Nov 8, 1998
- Messages
- 770
Well, James......I don't know about flint-knapping in YOUR part of the world...but it is progressing by leaps and bounds, in my country.
Geez....you can't GIVE AWAY steel bladed knives, here
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BrianWE
Believe me....being this old and having to live with all this experience is not the picnic I thought it was going to be.
Geez....you can't GIVE AWAY steel bladed knives, here
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BrianWE
Believe me....being this old and having to live with all this experience is not the picnic I thought it was going to be.
Cougar Allen
Buccaneer (ret.)
- Joined
- Oct 9, 1998
- Messages
- 76,862
For once I'm in absolute agreement with Les Robertson -- in fact I bet traditional makers screamed bloody murder when other knifemakers started using water wheels to turn their grinding wheels instead of apprentice power....
On the other hand ... if a knife is made entirely by CAD/CAM how is that different from factory-made? If you make one knife that way you could just as well make a million of them, identical. It could be a limited edition of fifty or even of one, but that's artificial scarcity ... how is that any different from what the Franklin Mint does?
As far as I know nobody is making knives entirely by CAD/CAM; as far as I know everybody is doing some hand work even if most of the work is CAM and all the design was CAD. Is doing some of the work by hand enough to make it a hand-made knife?
If I buy a factory-made blade and make a handle for it could I honestly call it a hand-made knife? How about if I design a blade myself but I have it mass-produced by a factory, have five thousand of them made and spend the next ten years putting handles on them and selling them as hand-made knives? If I make blades by CAM and put handles on them would that be any different?
Clearly it would be dishonest to advertise knives as hand-made without disclosing such things as whether some parts were made in a factory or by CAM. As long as makers let us know how they're making knives we can make up our own minds whether we want to buy them or not ... that isn't going to end the arguments, though. Say somebody does start making knives entirely by CAD/CAM and makes no secret of it ... they're still going to cost more than factory knives if only a small quantity is made in a little shop. They'll still be original designs, designed by a knifemaker who may have a reputation. They could still be custom-made ... a knifemaker could work with a customer to come up with a unique design to give that customer exactly what he wants.
I suspect many of us who say we only buy knives to use, who aren't collectors who buy knives to put in glass display cases ... still care whether a knife is hand-made or not. I know I feel that way. I don't buy knives I don't intend to use (well ... seldom ...) but I value a knife for other things besides its ability to cut things, too. I value a stag handle more than an injection-molded plastic handle ... even if I can get just as good a grip on the plastic handle I'm willing to pay more for stag. I figure I get some intangible pleasure from using that knife even if it doesn't cut any better ... that's worth some money to me. In the same way I don't think I'd value a CAD/CAM knife as much as a hand-made knife. In fact I think I'd value a knife that was made without even an electric grinder even more ... it's a spectrum; I don't see a hard clear distinction between hand-made and machine-made.
I suspect a lot of us feel that way, even those of us who are loudest about insisting *we* buy knives only to use.
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-Cougar Allen :{)
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This post is not merely the author's opinions; it is the trrrrrruth. This post is intended to cause dissension and unrest and upset people, and ultimately drive them mad. Please do not misinterpret my intentions in posting this.
On the other hand ... if a knife is made entirely by CAD/CAM how is that different from factory-made? If you make one knife that way you could just as well make a million of them, identical. It could be a limited edition of fifty or even of one, but that's artificial scarcity ... how is that any different from what the Franklin Mint does?
As far as I know nobody is making knives entirely by CAD/CAM; as far as I know everybody is doing some hand work even if most of the work is CAM and all the design was CAD. Is doing some of the work by hand enough to make it a hand-made knife?
If I buy a factory-made blade and make a handle for it could I honestly call it a hand-made knife? How about if I design a blade myself but I have it mass-produced by a factory, have five thousand of them made and spend the next ten years putting handles on them and selling them as hand-made knives? If I make blades by CAM and put handles on them would that be any different?
Clearly it would be dishonest to advertise knives as hand-made without disclosing such things as whether some parts were made in a factory or by CAM. As long as makers let us know how they're making knives we can make up our own minds whether we want to buy them or not ... that isn't going to end the arguments, though. Say somebody does start making knives entirely by CAD/CAM and makes no secret of it ... they're still going to cost more than factory knives if only a small quantity is made in a little shop. They'll still be original designs, designed by a knifemaker who may have a reputation. They could still be custom-made ... a knifemaker could work with a customer to come up with a unique design to give that customer exactly what he wants.
I suspect many of us who say we only buy knives to use, who aren't collectors who buy knives to put in glass display cases ... still care whether a knife is hand-made or not. I know I feel that way. I don't buy knives I don't intend to use (well ... seldom ...) but I value a knife for other things besides its ability to cut things, too. I value a stag handle more than an injection-molded plastic handle ... even if I can get just as good a grip on the plastic handle I'm willing to pay more for stag. I figure I get some intangible pleasure from using that knife even if it doesn't cut any better ... that's worth some money to me. In the same way I don't think I'd value a CAD/CAM knife as much as a hand-made knife. In fact I think I'd value a knife that was made without even an electric grinder even more ... it's a spectrum; I don't see a hard clear distinction between hand-made and machine-made.
I suspect a lot of us feel that way, even those of us who are loudest about insisting *we* buy knives only to use.
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-Cougar Allen :{)
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This post is not merely the author's opinions; it is the trrrrrruth. This post is intended to cause dissension and unrest and upset people, and ultimately drive them mad. Please do not misinterpret my intentions in posting this.
- Joined
- Aug 1, 1999
- Messages
- 3,036
Let me turn this around a little and try to make a case for NOT using CNC, CAD, CAM, whatever. What I enjoy most about knifemaking is not making any two knives the same. They're close, but never really the same. This inevitably leads to some completely unplanned disasters, but it also leads to discovery. Everytime I profle a blade, there is always a little what if I did this at play. With time, the disasters have diminished and the flow of new designs has accellerated. I'm shipping 42 blades off to Paul Bos for heat treating tomorrow. In that batch, no two blades are exactly the same and several are knives I've never made before.
Were I working entirely with CAD, CNC, etc, most of this wouldn't happen. Another side benefit is that the variation necessarily increases hand skill, since all parts and shapes are individually fashioned and fitted.
I'd love some more machinery, but mainly so I could do some things that are just not reasonably doable with what I now have at hand. But there are also many things that are easier to do by hand than they are to program a machine for.
And finally, I find there is a great deal of personal satisfaction derived from holding a knife that was fashioned entirely in my hands. I'm not doing that for the customer as much as I'm doing it for me. It's why I do this. That I can make some other people happy with my knives is icing on my cake.
Of course I have a few scars and a never ending series of healing wounds to show for all that satisfaction. But I wouldn't have it any other way. That others do it differently doesn't concern me at all.
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Jerry Hossom
knifemaker
www.hossom.com
Were I working entirely with CAD, CNC, etc, most of this wouldn't happen. Another side benefit is that the variation necessarily increases hand skill, since all parts and shapes are individually fashioned and fitted.
I'd love some more machinery, but mainly so I could do some things that are just not reasonably doable with what I now have at hand. But there are also many things that are easier to do by hand than they are to program a machine for.
And finally, I find there is a great deal of personal satisfaction derived from holding a knife that was fashioned entirely in my hands. I'm not doing that for the customer as much as I'm doing it for me. It's why I do this. That I can make some other people happy with my knives is icing on my cake.
Of course I have a few scars and a never ending series of healing wounds to show for all that satisfaction. But I wouldn't have it any other way. That others do it differently doesn't concern me at all.
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Jerry Hossom
knifemaker
www.hossom.com
Allen Blade
BANNED
- Joined
- Oct 29, 1999
- Messages
- 498
guess im not good at wording my thoughts,,,,,,better to delete them.
[This message has been edited by Allen Blade (edited 02-07-2000).]
[This message has been edited by Allen Blade (edited 02-07-2000).]
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