What has happened to TRADITIONAL KNIFEMAKING!!

[JH225]

Hey Allen,

Guess what buddy, You are not the only "Artifact in a modern World".

I think everyone agrees that a grinder, drill press, and maybe a bandsaw are pretty much necessities in the knife making world or it would just not be profitable. But I am against the use of laser cutting, CNC, Cad-Cam, jobbing out, etc. on a custom knife.

To me "Handmade comes from the Heart", and the pride of craftsmanship goes with it.

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C.O.'s-"It takes balls to work behind the walls "

 

[brian w edginton]

Allen

Grow up ,dammit !
You have a WHOLE LOT to offer, here. One of the "biggies"'
keep posting and stop being so delicate.
People are gonna disagree, occasionally......or, more often......"so there you go "(as we say in Oz)




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BrianWE

Believe me....being this old and having to live with all this experience is not the picnic I thought it was going to be.

 

[tom mayo]

well, i would like to agree with you, as i still have the same type of tools as you, but its 2000...and a lot of cowboys were saying the same thing as you at the turn of the last century when henry ford came out with the automobile...i can name a dozen hot top name knifemakers right off the bat that have become very good friends with a good machinist with a CNC machine...its the facts of life....one very famous high art knife maker has been heard saying...if he can make $1000 on a knife hes happy...and his knives sell in the 4k and up bracket...so think that one thru......aloja.

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http://www.mayoknives.com

 

[stab1]

Allen, Traditional knifemaking is alive and well in North Georgia. Forged Damascus blades, hand scrimed stag handles, free-hand grinding, hand carved and hand painted, plus sheaths. The art is not dying it just seems to be keeping a low profile.
Rs
Don

 

[L6steel]

Well sh*t!!!!!!!!! I guess I'll cancel my order with Admiral Steel to have 25 drop point blanks laser cut. But atleast now I can spend the money I was savin up to buy a surface grinder with!!!!!

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"Always think of your fellow knife makers as partners in the search for the perfect blade, not as people trying to compete with you and your work!"

[This message has been edited by L6STEEL (edited 02-07-2000).]

 

[HermanKnives]

sheeesh deja vu!

here we go again folks. Allen, didnt you just go throught this same thing a week ago? whining about somebody dissing you and "i'm not gonna post any more".....waaa waaa! Then everyone tells you how wonderful you are and you post like crazy once again. you discover the worlds greatest new knife blah blah blah. jesus this is getting old.

if other makers want to make machine made production knives, who cares? you want to make "hand made" knives, just do it! dont make such a huge deal over it just to get your name in the headlines. do your knives like you want too but dont badmouth everyone else.

people made the same complaints years ago about drill presses, saws and grinders. you chisel out all your inlay pockets with hammer and chisel? file all your blades and finish them all with sandpaper and your hands? if you go that far then lets all make our own screws by hand too.



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Tim Herman
visit Herman Knives at:
Herman Knives

 

[Marion David Poff]

Tim, I would think that as a member of the human race, you would support others despite what you may think of them. Especially those who aren't peeing in your Wheaties. Unless of course you are posting to cover your own deficiencies. Allen can post as he likes, and maybe you should use your faculties to see what he really means, or did he cut close to the bone? And really, would you point out where your post is a contribution to this thread, or are you wasting bandwidth to criticize someone for wasting bandwidth? Do you like to flaunt you ignorance? Do you know what he is going through? Have you walked a mile in his mocassins? I defended you in that thread in the Custom Forum, you make beautiful knives, exquisite, in fact Allen was just complimenting you to me, saying how gorgeous your knives are. Allen was stating his opinion here, and you jumped on him like a ton of bricks, why?

All, personally I think that the distinctions that Allen is making are artificial. I agree that it has to do with what people are willing to buy. And logically he doesn't have much ground to stand on, since he uses powered tools. Personally I figure that they are all tools, anvil=tool, hammer=tool, grinder=tool, file=tool, CAD/CAM=tool.

Cougar, Les, Mike T, Paracelsus, Good Points

rj, I respect you, but it takes two to be offended. I say, "Water off a duck's back.

Lynn, I would say that stating an opinion is perfectly OK, especially since he was talking about the concept, not a certain maker, but insulting someone, like this.....

Putting down the methods of others to sell your knives is something a little different.

Is not OK. And something a little different, to use your terminology...

What have you done to sell knives? HMMMM Post to every thread boasting about your knives, regardless of whether you had a contribution or not, just saying... "Look here, I'll sell you a knife..."

Allen does not need these forums to sell knives, as a matter of fact he is not even taking orders right now. He has survived 12 years as a knifemaker, he puts a roof up and food on the table making knives, has done so without BladeForums, he did not do this to sell knives, he did this to express his opinion and see what you all thought, so, what do you think, what would you like to contribute to this thread? Or did you just post to put up links to your own forum to sell knives?

Oh yeah, Lynn, here is a good question, you offer colored G-10 as an option on your site, but you don't know where to get it? When Allen asked for information on your source, you wouldn't help, interesting. I guess you are afraid that if he had colored G-10, he might be competition. But I thought that you had no competition??????

All, I was gonna take the high road, but I feel that a couple of you have intentionally set out to be hurtful, and that is just plain WRONG. And if you did not set out that way, maybe you should look at your methods.

I enjoy the variety of this place, but we are not going to sustain it unless we stop stomping on others while refusing to contribute anything worthwhile. If that applies to you, then so be it. If that does not apply to you, please forgive me for failing to ignore the turds in our midst.

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Thank you,
Marion David Poff aka Eye, Cd'A ID, USA mdpoff@hotmail.com

"We will either find a way, or make one." Hannibal, 210 B.C.

 

[HermanKnives]

Mr. Poff,

first of all, i dont recall saying anything to you! i am not trying to cover any defiencies as i do most of my knives by hand too. i just don see why he should slam other makers for using machines. isnt this america? cant other makers do as they see fit for their knives? i guess not! just as some of us dont seem to be allowed our opinions here either. i am just tired of seeing this same thing happen over and over again as i am sure most others are too. i agree with the other guy....allen grow up.
also you probly missed it but last week or so i did defend him in his first whining post about evreybody not liking him and his methods. dont remember those parts from me do you? just the parts you want to see.

cant allen speak for himself here mr. poff? please mind your own business. do you know what i have been going through? i didnt think that was the issue here, a sympathy thread. walk a mile in my shoes before you jump on me. oh yes i forgot, that only works one way!

you ask my contributions to this thread, well what are allens? all his whining about other makers using machines! to each his own as i said before. is anyone forcing allen to use cnc or lasers for his knives? if not then why do we even need this thread started by him? talk about wasted bandwidth.

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Tim Herman
visit Herman Knives at:
Herman Knives



[This message has been edited by HermanKnives (edited 02-07-2000).]

 

[UW Mitch]

I read this post as some sort of dicsussion apparently about how much technology should be involved in creating a custom knife, but turn into some kind of argument. I think all the makers here, Mr. Herman, Mr. Griffith, Allen Blade...everyone, makes nice knives. These arguments seem (to me) to be about people stepping on other peoples toes. I don't get it!

I hold all makers of knives in high regard. I feel that the custom knife industry should be one of productive collaboration and sharing. Because of the wide range of style, and the variety of materials, design choices, and technologies on the market, I would think that makers could find a to find their own little niche, and not worry about someone else taking their bussiness.

I think arguments like this are petty, and they don't contribute to the growth of anyone's art/business.

I hope we can all get along!

~Mitch

 

[Stryver]

A few years ago, I was wandering around a Fair, and stopped at a blacksmith's booth. I wanted a striker that fit my hand better, and asked the lady manning the booth if they had any strikers. I got the blankest look I'd seen in a long time. I quickly gave up trying to describe what this tool was to the lady, and stopped back in later when the smith was there, and asked him if he had any. He looked a bit shocked, and said no, but he should. So half an hour later, I had a striker that I had watched him make for me with a hammer, tongs, an anvil and a fire. He then proceeded to charge me a miniscule price for the thing, and I happily left well over a 50% tip with him, and thought I'd had a very good deal that day.

This same fair has a bladesmith who handforged damascus blades. They weren't the fanciest in the world, but you could see each and every layer he beat into them with his hammer, and you paid for it too. It had a swordsmith who beat his blades from leaf springs. This guy warrantied his blades for life, even against user stupidity. And you paid for it. There was another swordsmith who built his blades from a specific bar stock alloy. His blades would hold a better edge, but tended to look more like each other.

None of these people produced what ya'll would call 'collectors' blades. The damascus forger spent more time on the blade, and turned out beautiful knives, spears and swords, but they were not fancy, just well made damascus. The other two used hand methods, but had several people in the shop so they could 'assembly line' their blades. They had apprentices do the time-consuming work, and no blades were 'sole authorship'. But they were similar to what someone might have created 500 years ago. Is that traditional? Is the knifemaker who does all his own work a traditional knifemaker? Do I care?

This topic is probably ranted out, but I wanted to add a very pleasant, 'traditional', experience I had. I still have that striker, and it rides in a small kit in the left pocket of my wool pants, the Strike Force in the right.


Stryver

 

[Marion David Poff]

Tim, I'll respond to each part...

First of all, i dont recall saying anything to you!

Oh, if that is the standard, and Allen did not ask your opinion, why did you post?

i just don't see why he should slam other makers for using machines.

Would you point out the slam?

isnt this america? cant other makers do as they see fit for their knives?

Where did he say that they couldn't? And are you saying that makers outside American do not have free will?

just as some of us dont seem to be allowed our opinions here either.

Who said you can't voice your opinion? In fact I see you secrete your opinions all over the place. I said that your opinion, manner, demeanour and general character, was inapropriate in my opinion....

i am just tired of seeing this same thing happen over and over again as i am sure most others are too.

I am tired of seeing you prove your worth over and over again. In fact, it makes me sick watching a grown man assassinate his own character.

i agree with the other guy....allen grow up.

What is that school yard saying... "Point one finger at me, and you point three at yourself"

also you probly missed it but last week or so i did defend him in his first whining post about evreybody not liking him and his methods. dont remember those parts from me do you? just the parts you want to see.

I missed those, but thank you for pointing that out, maybe you are not a total waste. Oh, maybe you should read posts closer or stop using infinitves, like 'evreybody'.

cant allen speak for himself here mr. poff?

Of course he can, I have seen him do it any number of times, a real phenomenon. Do you have a point? And, if this is what you call 'speaking for yourself" maybe you should have someone else do it for you.

please mind your own business.

So, which is it? Opinions are wanted, yours and mine, or they are not wanted? I thought knives were everyone's business. You know, I have had this argument with others, people telling to mind my business while they are as busy sticking their nose in everyone else business. Do the math, search my posts and see how many times I have told people off, then search yours with the same criteria, be sure to factor in how long each of us has been around the forums and total posts, then let me know what you find out. If can't figure out how to do that, ask someone else.

do you know what i have been going through? i didnt think that was the issue here, a sympathy thread. walk a mile in my shoes before you jump on me. oh yes i forgot, that only works one way!

You are right, you do need sympathy. That's what this is, tough love.

you ask my contributions to this thread, well what are allens?

Hmmm, tough one, uhhhhhh.... He started the thread????

all his whining about other makers using machines! to each his own as i said before. is anyone forcing allen to use cnc or lasers for his knives?

How does that even apply?

if not then why do we even need this thread started by him? talk about wasted bandwidth.

I don't know where to begin....


Post something else, this is fun. No one has given me this much ammunition in years, I think it was Mad Dog.

MDP

[This message has been edited by Marion David Poff (edited 02-07-2000).]

 

[AJ]

Seems to me like toomany of us are getting a little too testy lately. A goodly number of posts have stirred up an over-abundance of passionate and heated replies.

I would hope that we all could find more common ground, rather than taking sides and lobbing rocks at each other.

AJ

 

[Brian_Turner]

Just wanted to get a post in before this one gets locked down...

To note:

I am one of the guys who buys the high art knives. I am one of the guys who pays (dearly!) for the maker to do the work by hand.

I buy these knives for fun. Part of that fun is dealing with friendly, fun people. I don't sell my knives, I take pleasure in them, and in the experience that went into bringing them to being.

I've learned a lot about people here on BF (and other net forums) before I commissioned ANY of my high art pieces. I have purposely sought out some makers because of their online demeanor, and purposely avoided others.

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AKTI Member #A000832

"That which does not kill me just postpones the inevitable."

 

[David1967]

Interesting thread. Especially when AB removed his posts.

BTW - Marion, you were right about the similarity with MD therads.

Your reply reminds me those replies made by MD fans.

David

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DIVERTI NESCIO

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My Photopoint pictures

 

[James Mattis]

Sheesh!

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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
AKTI Member # SA00001