What if the burr won't leave?

R

Richmtnkennels

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Nov 20, 2013
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I am having the same problem on all my knives. I used to have all kinds of equipment when I was making knives (very amateur but good skinners). But now I have a rough stone, an orange Smiths diamond stone, a red DMT diamond rod, and an old butcher steel. I will put them on rough stone, then take them to the diamond stone, or rod, then finish on the steel. Razor sharp but a fine burr the whole length of the blade. I am so damn aggravated!!!!!!!! I cannot get a good edge on a knife without having the burr, and when I strop it spine first on the steel, burr is gone but so is the edge!
 
I can't afford a $100+ sharpener right now, I gotta figure out how to make what I have work. I WANT to get good with just a stone.
 
The burrs or wire edge I'm getting are tiny. You can see thrm only if u hold the blade just right in the light. Thickness of a piece of paper.
 
Richmtnkennels said:
The burrs or wire edge I'm getting are tiny. You can see thrm only if u hold the blade just right in the light. Thickness of a piece of paper.
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Yes, my method would works for that size of burr/wire-edge. Give it a shot, not much too lose but the burr ;)
 
It may be that you are trying for too acute an angle. Try steeling at a slightly more obtuse angle. But very light pressure on the steel is important.
 
Richmtnkennels said:
I am having the same problem on all my knives. I used to have all kinds of equipment when I was making knives (very amateur but good skinners). But now I have a rough stone, an orange Smiths diamond stone, a red DMT diamond rod, and an old butcher steel. I will put them on rough stone, then take them to the diamond stone, or rod, then finish on the steel. Razor sharp but a fine burr the whole length of the blade. I am so damn aggravated!!!!!!!! I cannot get a good edge on a knife without having the burr, and when I strop it spine first on the steel, burr is gone but so is the edge!
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If the steel has visible grooves, you might want to try not using it, stop on the Smith's orange which is approx 600 grit. Strop on two or three layers of newspaper wrapped around your rough stone - check for burrs and go back to the Smith's stone as needed till stropping on the newspaper no longer reveals a burr. Even if the steel is smooth, you should completely deburr prior to using it or it will just turn up what's already there - this should make a wicked sharp edge. If the steel is grooved, its a totally different animal and not for finishing off a fine edge.

Martin
 
It has visible grooves, but they are BARELY visible. This steel was my great grandfathers. To the touch and casual glance it is smooth. But I will try that. The stick across the blade didn't work. Btw, one knife is a spyderco with VG-1, one is a case saddlehorn Bose style?, and two are AG Russell with 8cr13mov.
 
Richmtnkennels said:
It has visible grooves, but they are BARELY visible. This steel was my great grandfathers. To the touch and casual glance it is smooth. But I will try that. The stick across the blade didn't work. Btw, one knife is a spyderco with VG-1, one is a case saddlehorn Bose style?, and two are AG Russell with 8cr13mov.
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Are you sure the Spyderco isn't actually VG-10? And is the 'Bose style' Case saddlehorn one of the collaboration knives ($$$) or one of Case's standard line in 'Tru-Sharp' stainless or CV? If a standard line knife from Case, the pattern number stamped on one of the blades will clarify. The pricey Bose collaboration line from Case is a whole other animal; normally in 154CM steel, if I recall.

Reason I ask is, both VG-10 from Spyderco and 420HC ('Tru-Sharp' stainless) from Case are prone to burrs anyway. Pressure is what creates them and makes them bigger. Rod-type hones focus pressure in a small contact area against the edge, therefore contributing to burr formation.

As mentioned, grooved steels aren't good for eliminating burrs, and will usually create some big ones instead.

A simple bench stone in silicon carbide or aluminum oxide (think of Norton's Crystolon or India, respectively), or wet/dry sandpaper can work great for Case's blades, from beginning to end. VG-10 could be re-bevelled on diamond or silicon carbide hones quite easily, then finished and/or polished with finer grits of the same or on aluminum oxide, or also on wet/dry paper over a firm backing (wood, glass) with edge-trailing strokes. Trailing-edge sharpening on sandpaper is more tolerant of pressure (within reason; still keep it light), and will reduce the size of burrs left.

BTW, the 8Cr13MoV responds nicely to SiC/AlOx/wet-dry sandpaper honing as well, much like the Case blades. Burrs shouldn't be quite as bad, if heat treat is decent (I'd expect this from A.G. Russell; I have several of his in the same steel).


David
 
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Spyderco has VG-1 on blade. And case is SS tru-sharp. Never tried sandpaper b4. Have to check out sharpeners thanks. Hoping to find a stone that will work well.
 
Richmtnkennels said:
Spyderco has VG-1 on blade. And case is SS tru-sharp. Never tried sandpaper b4. Have to check out sharpeners thanks. Hoping to find a stone that will work well.
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OK. Specs for the makeup of VG-1 look very similar to VG-10, though the slightly more complex VG-10 also includes more Molybdenum and Cobalt. Otherwise, the VG-1 and the Case Tru-Sharp should respond well to both/either of the Norton stones I referenced (Crystolon/India), or the sandpaper. With the Norton stones, the Crystolon is generally favored for coarser work like grinding new bevels and such, and the India is highly-regarded as a good finishing/maintenance stone. I don't think you'd go wrong with either of these, or both used in sequence. And black, white or green compounds should all do well on strops, for these steels. I especially like green compound for Case's blades; they respond very well to it.


David
 
Spyderco doesn't use VG-1. It must be VG-10.
 
rycen said:
Spyderco doesn't use VG-1. It must be VG-10.
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Maybe so. I haven't remembered them using it either, but wondered(?) if one of their older patterns/limited runs may've used it. They seemed to go through a lot of different steels back in the '90s, in particular, that I hadn't seen anyone else using (GIN-1 comes to mind). At any rate, based on composition, it seems like it's less complicated and probably less wear-resistant than VG-10. Whichever it is, it should be pretty straightforward to sharpen up.

On the other hand, Cold Steel apparently uses the heck out of the stuff, based on their offerings I'm seeing online.


David
 
Have you tried stropping the edge on cardboard to remove the burr?

The board on a back of a pad of paper should do the trick. Another is to draw the edge through the end cut of some board cut pine or other wood.

If those two won't do it? My guess is your angles may be off?
 
I made a stop by a knife maker today. Angle was right, but pulling thru wood and rubber didn't do it. Got them sharp on his equipment, I ordered a Fallkniven diamond/ceramic stone, and a Norton crystolon stone, with rough and fine. Gonna mess with a couple cheaper knives til I figure it out. Thanks guys!
 
I'd suggest get HeavyHanded's washboard package. It comes with sandpaper, stropping compound and will work well with your steels.
 
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