What if there was never a Spyderco or Zero Tolerance???

If Spyderco never existed that would probably delay the pocket clip and opening holes by a bit. Still would of came about I believe though.

Since I only own 1 ZT, and hardly carry it, no big effect on me there.

Think I'd get by just fine with my Kershaws & Benchmades.
 
buck was around before them. i still collect and use bucks even with those two brands which i like and buy.....so while id miss what those two brought...cutting chores and tool use wise....id be okay with buck.
 
I have 1 Spyderco, and 2 ZT's incoming (and only because I was able to locate a 0620CF and 0630CF in M390). So I would just be buying the stuff I already buy.
 
jbmonkey said:
buck was around before them. i still collect and use bucks even with those two brands which i like and buy.....so while id miss what those two brought...cutting chores and tool use wise....id be okay with buck.
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For sure I'd take a buck strider with bos heat treatment for a folder and a nighthawk for a fixed.
 
No Spyderco or ZT,
I've had Kershaw's long before ZT was born, so more Kershaw's. I don't have but a few Spyderco's, so there's that. I do have quite a few CRK's, a few Shirogorov's, a couple of Hinderer's. With the absence of about 25 knives between the two, I'd opt for a few more custom slip joints.
 
I'd have to buy crk's, Shiro's and other high quality folders if they didn't exist.
I wish more companies had as many options as spyderco does.

Benchmade would not be on my list with there high map and poor qc. I assume without those two brands the problem would be worse
 
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I would probably have a few more Kershaw Knockouts and a few more Hinderer Knives!
 
I think BM, Kershaw, CRKT, Victorinox, Buck, Lionsteel, DPX may have more representation in my collection

But I will miss the functional approach/designs of Spyderco more than the hard use semi-tactical offering of ZT
 
Cold Steel, Buck, Massdrop have been getting my business for the last 2 years - the other guys are basically pricing me out ,however I did pick up a p2 cruwear in smooth g10
 
The world would be a miserable place without PM2 or Shaman or (add your fave spydie here). And we will be miserable because Spyderco and ZT both got us quite nice knives for a quite fair price, in their categories.
So we'll be doomed by CRKT!
 
shinbone said:
And, while the Spyder hole is their claim to fame, and is a useful feature in some of their designs, their insistence on including it on practically everything they make hobbles their ability to create truly new blade geometries, and ruins the aesthetics of most of their knives for me. Hell, Spyderco even included a Spyderhole on the Phil Wilson South Fork. As if Phil Wilson needs a hand improving his blade designs. Still, they make a good knife.

JMHO
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This may just be a case of another "senior moment" but I could swear I saw a post on BF showing a knife that had the "spydee hole" long before there was a Spyderco.
 
I love Spyderco and ZT, but I ama Benchmade fan too. Now that I can legally carry an auto in Illinois, I am big fan of Protech and Microtech. I think Hinderer, Manly, Boker, and SAK, are great too.
 
I won't get into the lesser known aspect of one maker helping influence another by things like helping the new company find a manufacturer in Japan, or referring another company to an engineer that helped debug a lock design. These things happen and influence the market but go under the radar and I know of some of these type incidents involved here. AG Russell is another one like that. Many in the industry have a story about A G Russell for good or bad but everybody knows who he is. Likewise Sal.

Off the top of my head I'll say the biggest difference would be the availability and use of many steels especially tool steels was influenced very much by Sal G. It's true Gerber used L6, M2 and Vascowear back in the 70's to 80's but that wasn't nearly to the extent that it is now in the market. You might have customs in 10V but you wouldn't have had production knives in 10V, Maxamet, K390, S110V etc. The whole "steel junky" trend was begun and jump started by Sal G. and Spyderco. Many take the mule teams for granted now and even grumble about "if they were only ..." but the whole concept of the mule team and using it as a platform to try out different steels at little more than cost is something that would not have existed if not for Sal.Sal has set the bar for owners/CEOs wanting to learn how to utilize the internet and the dedicated Spyderco forums along with customer "knowledge leaders" and "opinion leaders". Sal has been available and helped solve W&R issues and has been a very positive company asset online. I know of no one that does it better.

Several manufacturers worked with designers but not many to the extent that Spydero has. The Sage series of the same knife and steel with different locks is another high effort low sales items Spyderco made mostly for it's "lock junky" customers of which there are less than "steel junky" and "edge junky" in numbers.

Other company s have made their versions of "sprint runs" but nobody has come close to doing it like Spyderco. Look at their waiting lists. ( Busse has a completely different business model). Everybody knows about Spyderco's one hand opening with a clip innovation but there are so many more. The list of "first on the market" would take longer than I want to put in this thread.

Joe
 
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The Mastiff said:
I won't get into the lesser known aspect of one maker helping influence another by things like helping the new company find a manufacturer in Japan, or referring another company to an engineer that helped debug a lock design. These things happen and influence the market but go under the radar and I know of some of these type incidents involved here. AG Russell is another one like that. Many in the industry have a story about A G Russell for good or bad but everybody knows who he is. Likewise Sal.

Off the top of my head I'll say the biggest difference would be the availability and use of many steels especially tool steels was influenced very much by Sal G. It's true Gerber used L6, M2 and Vascowear back in the 70's to 80's but that wasn't nearly to the extent that it is now in the market. You might have customs in 10V but you wouldn't have had production knives in 10V, Maxamet, K390, S110V etc. The whole "steel junky" trend was begun and jump started by Sal G. and Spyderco. Many take the mule teams for granted now and even grumble about "if they were only ..." but the whole concept of the mule team and using it as a platform to try out different steels at little more than cost is something that would not have existed if not for Sal.Sal has set the bar for owners/CEOs wanting to learn how to utilize the internet and the dedicated Spyderco forums along with customer "knowledge leaders" and "opinion leaders". Sal has been available and helped solve W&R issues and has been a very positive company asset online. I know of no one that does it better.

Several manufacturers worked with designers but not many to the extent that Spydero has. The Sage series of the same knife and steel with different locks is another high effort low sales items Spyderco made mostly for it's "lock junky" customers of which there are less than "steel junky" and "edge junky" in numbers.

Other company s have made their versions of "sprint runs" but nobody has come close to doing it like Spyderco. Look at their waiting lists. ( Busse has a completely different business model). Everybody knows about Spyderco's one hand opening with a clip innovation but there are so many more. The list of "first on the market" would take longer than I want to put in this thread.

Joe
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Also, only CEO I’ve seen interact constantly with his customers.
Couldn’t agree with everything else you said any more Joe.

Joe
 
Well, if we were going to say that literally everything else in the industry right now was the same except that Spyderco and ZT never existed, I'd probably be carrying Lionsteel, Benchmade, and Reate.
 
Dan of Bazz Clazz said:
After being a member for close to a year now, even I have figured out that BF is the unofficial stronghold of Spyderco and Zero Tolerance knives - With CRK being a close 3rd.

So at the risk of offending and alienating a large percentage of the BF membership: :rolleyes:

While I have zero dispute as to the manufacturing quality of Spydee's and ZT's I will also say that neither manufacturer holds any appeal for me what-so-ever. On purely aesthetic grounds I can pass up either brand, with no trouble at all. No interest in buying a knife from either company, (with the single exception of the Spydee "Sprig" ) Again, this is a difference only in style/taste versus knife quality. To each his own.

My question is:
If there were no Syderco or Zero Tolerance knives ever - the brands never existed - What would you buy instead?

The Spydee and ZT crowd obviously know quality, usability, ergonomics. What brand or brands would fill the gap for you? BTW, Saying something like, "If the was no Spyderco, I wouldn't own or collect knives at all" will automatically disqualify you. Zealots are incapable of offering unbiased information or making informed decisions. :D

Let the rants begin! lol
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Benchmade, Lionsteel, Viper, Boker and Protech mostly.
 
I think ZT sets the bar on where Titanium Framelocks need to be at Production knife prices. Without ZT, the average titanium framelock specimen would be far more expensive today. Either that or more companies could get away with selling lesser at a higher price. A lot of companies have in recent years have jumped on the Titanium framelock bandwagon. If you want to sell a $200 titanium framelock, it has to be at least *this* good. If you want to sell a $350+ production titanium framelock, it needs to surpass a certain level of quality.
 
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