What is 1.4116 steel?

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I believe this is what my early 1990's Puma White Hunter's blade is made out of. It's all I could find online. But what's it comparable to?
 

Joshua J.

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IIRC it's pretty much the European 420HC, maybe a little cleaner. Usually used for scalpel blades. Nothing to write home about.
 

knarfeng

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Josh is correct. 1.4116 is pretty close to 420HC.
The data listed is for Latrobe Steel's version of 420HC.
Since 420HC is not an official designation, the exact composition varies a bit depending on which steel maker produced it. But no matter which version, it will be reasonably close to 1.4116.

______________1.4116_____________ 420HC
Carbon %____0.45-.050___________0.40-0.50
Mang_________0.4_________________0.8
Chr_________14.50-14.80_________12.00-14.00
Moly__________0.6________________ --
Van___________0.1________________0.3
 
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Well, if anybody can tell me when it was made, if it is this steel and anything about it i would appreciate it. My grandfather gave it to me and there isnt much on the net. The sheath has the numbers 99 63 75, the guard has the numbers 23981 and the blade has the numbers 11 6375. i tried reading the chart but don't understand it.
 

knarfeng

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This sounds like a job for ....Bernard Levine's forum.
Post pics there and they'll tell you about it.

Puma made some great knives back in the day. The workmanship was top of the line.
 
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The date code on the guard says it was made in the first half of 1989. The number on the blade (116375) is the model number.

A catalog I have from the early 90s does not list 1.4116 steel, although it lists several others, including 4116. I don't know if it is the same (maybe the catalog has a typo), but is described as the stainless steel for hunting knives, so it fits with the White Hunter.

DIN 4116
C 0.5-0.55
Si 1.0
Mn 1.0
Cr 13.8-15
Mo 0.45-0.60

The moly makes a difference. Even more importantly, their heat treatment was excellent, and makes a very large difference. In my experience the steel from that era and before performs far better than one would expect by looking at the composition. In my personal testing with cardboard, it lasted longer than Benchmade's 440C. It also takes a fine edge.
 

Lev

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My only experience with it is with a small fixed blade by Kevin Wilkins in Germany. I use it in the kitchen and I find it adequate for my needs. But it depends on what you want it for.

Lev
 
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A popular steel in German stainless kitchen knives. Very rust resistant, easy to get hair popping sharp and easy to keep working sharp for a long time with just a steel or even the bottom of a ceramic cup.

Nothing to brag around steel snobs, but quite practical in the kitchen.

Nice bike, BTW :)
 

t1mpani

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I'd rather have a slicer made from 1.4116 than a prybar made from infi.

Of course, that point is more than a little shaky in this particular thread, since we're talking about a more-than 3/16" thick blade with a half-height saber grind whose geometry is actually far MORE pry-baresque than any 1/4" full flat ground blade of equal or greater width, but at least some partisanship found its way into the discussion, we were in danger of there being none. :D

Anyway, I love old Puma knives. I used to be very steel-snobbish even within Puma; would ONLY use the laminated carbon (Pumaster) steel until I inherited a stainless hunter which I can't remember the model name of but it looks like a small white hunter with a disc guard. Anyway, I felt I owed it a chance and had it on a hunting trip, skinning, preparing food and doing all of the little knife-related chores that pop up when you're out doing "manly stuff" for a couple of days. My experience was that, for normal tasks, (the need to cut several one inch long pieces of ultra-abrasive rope being fairly uncommon in the wild) it really was a damned fine/capable little knife. I have knives that'll hold an edge longer with no touch-ups, but have to admit that it hardly matters since I always give EVERYTHING a couple swipes on a super-fine ceramic after use, just to keep things stupid-sharp. More and more, as time goes by, while I haven't turned my back on my interest in the newest alloys, my NEED for them (along with my embarrassment of carrying a plain ol' SAK for fear that another knowledgeable knife knut might see it and be unimpressed) has greatly diminished. I'm still a snob for quality construction and heat treatment, but beyond that, if I fail to survive in the wilderness it'll be because of bad luck or insufficient skill, not because my knife was 12c26 instead of S90V.

Didn't notice this thread was started 2009 :)

Obviously, neither did the rest of us. ;)
 
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It's 80 or 100 year old steel. Sure, easy to sharpen, especially at 54-56HRC routinely used in larger in mainstream kitchen knives. Just as easy to dull too. Actually, I stand corrected, when it's closer to 54HRC it isn't easy to sharpen, steel simply folds when trying to sharpen at lower angles 15 per side or less...
Doesn't have much going for it in terms of edge holding. Dunno what's to be excited about it in 21st century.
 

greater

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The same as 420HC ? Maybe in terms of edge retention I sure don't know.

According to Knifesteelnerds 1.4116 is nowhere near as tough as 420HC (scored 2.5 vs 9.) Edge retention scored 2.5 on both. I guess if that is correct they are not as similar as many are lead to believe.

I have used 1.4116 and I like it but I know it's not going to hold an edge as long as better steels and thinner stock blades will probably not tolerate hard use/abuse very well.

That 420HC (especially Buck Paul Bos treated) stuff despite not matching "super steel" (quotes sorry guys I just cant help it. A lot of super steel may retain a super edge but is not super tough) in edge retention impresses me.

I find 1.4116 takes a very sharp edge and I have used my CRKT Kit Carson M40-03 (not too thin blade) to cut lots of food like raw carrots, raw potatoes and a host of other vegetables/meats as well as some general cutting such as paper, boxes, and string here and there. It performs very good for my uses. The edge held well for a lot of cuts. Keep in mind that is for my relatively light use.

Then there is proper heat treat and quality control vs manufacturing costs oh well that is another story.
 
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bikerector

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The same as 420HC ? Maybe in terms of edge retention I sure don't know.

According to Knifesteelnerds 1.4116 is nowhere near as tough as 420HC (scored 2.5 vs 9.) Edge retention scored 2.5 on both. I guess if that is correct they are not as similar as many are lead to believe.

I have used 1.4116 and I like it but I know it's not going to hold an edge as long as better steels and thinner stock blades will probably not tolerate hard use/abuse very well.

That 420HC (especially Buck Paul Bos treated) stuff despite not matching "super steel" (quotes sorry guys I just cant help it. A lot of super steel may retain a super edge but is not super tough) in edge retention impresses me.

I find 1.4116 takes a very sharp edge and I have used my CRKT Kit Carson M40-03 (not too thin blade) to cut lots of food like raw carrots, raw potatoes and a host of other vegetables/meats as well as some general cutting such as paper, boxes, and string here and there. It performs very good for my uses. The edge held well for a lot of cuts. Keep in mind that is for my relatively light use.

Then there is proper heat treat and quality control vs manufacturing costs oh well that is another story.

7 year old thread, FYI. Since last necro'ed at least.
 
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It's german steel made by krupp. Is still used extensively in Solingen made traditional knives. It's not a supersteel. It's mostly used by hunters and outdoor type application in Europe. It's easy to maintain, and sharpen. You use it in the field, come home, rinse the blood off, sharpen it and it's good for the next hunt. Simple. It doesn't break or rusts easely and performs for what it was made. I have some trachtenmesser with 1.4116 steel and nice stag, German quality, perfect for cutting your wurst or schweinshaxe on the beergarten. Wipe it off, put it in the sheath and back in the lederhosen. Trow it in your car if you need to cut something. Low maintenance and mediocre ( compared to wundersteel) performance but perfectly capable for every day cutting task around the house, car or woods.
 
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Yeah i know it's an old thread. But maybe newer knife knuts could benefit from it in the future if they use the search button.
 
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