- Joined
- Apr 28, 1999
- Messages
- 349
Ed / Rick
In the process of produceing a knife, we, I believe, must continue to strive for the best final produce.
How one steel responds to a given set of conditions may not be true for another high quality steel. Subjecting the 1075 to 1095 series carbon steel,5160,L-6,O-1, D-2,A-2 ,ETC to the same conditioned Ed and others apply to 52100 do not necessarily produce the same result. Does this make them an inferior steel? Of course not,it only prove that other conditions are required to achieve the desired result. As an example, if D-2 is forged at the low end temp of 52100 forgeing, it will come apart like too dry molding clay, yet they share the same tendancy to be brittle unless specific heat treated their own individual way. D-2 in its range of application as a blade steel is on par with anything out there. Bob Dozier & Neil Blackwood are two that can make D-2 sing and dance.
The same can be said for 52100, L-6,and most other blade steels,within their range of application & in the experienced hands, they will dance a jig.
On the other hand, 5160 will forgive the transgressions of a new maker, while he is learning, much better than most other steels. The trade off is it's not as clear of a finish as some others.
There is no catch all steel out there that is best in ALL applications. A 1&1/2 inch folder blade and a 14 inch bowie are worlds apart in design and use. Much as we would all like to see it, no one has come up with one yet. It seems like every so often there is a new "killer blade material" that surfaces, only to be replaced by the next one a few months later.
On the subject of the testing.
The question "Why can't I test a blade that is (not forged),(forged by someone else), (ground by someone else), (heat treated by someone else), (sharpened by someone else), ETC ?"
The ABS standard for testing forged blades is quite simple realy. This test is to see if one specific individual (the applicant) can, and has done the following:
First, Can you forge a blade? After all that is what the ABS is all about, Forged blades.
Second, Can you grind a blade that you forged?
Third, Can you properly heat treat the blade that you forged?
Fourth, Can you produce the edge geometry and sharpness, on the blade you forged, so that it will cut both hard and tough materials without loss of the ability to shave hair?
Fifth, Is the blade you forged flexable enough to bend 90 degrees and not break?
This is only the first step, If completed sucessfully, the applicant then must present 5 fully completed knives (forged and finished 100% by him/her) to be judged at the annual Atlanta Blade Show. If the knives are found, by the Collector and Master Smith judges, to be acceptable, the applicant will get a JS stamp.
The increase in quality of the knives submitted for a JS rate over the past few years has been nothing short of breath takeing. Knives submitted for JS rate by People like Bailey Bradshaw, Tim Foster, J.W Randall, Terry Primos, Ken Durham, John Fitch, Doug Noren and a basket full of others, had the quality of workmanship that would have been acceptable as MS quality only 10 years ago. Like it or not, the increase in proficiency of the new makers keeps pushing the bar higher and higher.
The possability of the ABS dropping the forged requirement is about as good as Ed dropping the use of 52100. No one has been a better champion of 52100 than Ed has.
A note of appology;
We who have been at this a long time tend to generalize and skip over specifics such as what steel we are talking about. When Ed talks about steel, most of us assume that is 52100. We just take it for granted that everyone knows that. If it seems like I'm at odds with Ed over that steel, I'm not. That's his ball park.
What I am saying is that there are other steels that have proven their worth as blade steel. Master Smiths such as,Jim Crowell, Jerry Fisk, Kevin Cashen, Roger Massey, Jim Walker, and a host of others have their favorite steels and can give you ample reason for doing so.:footinmou
In the process of produceing a knife, we, I believe, must continue to strive for the best final produce.
How one steel responds to a given set of conditions may not be true for another high quality steel. Subjecting the 1075 to 1095 series carbon steel,5160,L-6,O-1, D-2,A-2 ,ETC to the same conditioned Ed and others apply to 52100 do not necessarily produce the same result. Does this make them an inferior steel? Of course not,it only prove that other conditions are required to achieve the desired result. As an example, if D-2 is forged at the low end temp of 52100 forgeing, it will come apart like too dry molding clay, yet they share the same tendancy to be brittle unless specific heat treated their own individual way. D-2 in its range of application as a blade steel is on par with anything out there. Bob Dozier & Neil Blackwood are two that can make D-2 sing and dance.
The same can be said for 52100, L-6,and most other blade steels,within their range of application & in the experienced hands, they will dance a jig.
On the other hand, 5160 will forgive the transgressions of a new maker, while he is learning, much better than most other steels. The trade off is it's not as clear of a finish as some others.
There is no catch all steel out there that is best in ALL applications. A 1&1/2 inch folder blade and a 14 inch bowie are worlds apart in design and use. Much as we would all like to see it, no one has come up with one yet. It seems like every so often there is a new "killer blade material" that surfaces, only to be replaced by the next one a few months later.
On the subject of the testing.
The question "Why can't I test a blade that is (not forged),(forged by someone else), (ground by someone else), (heat treated by someone else), (sharpened by someone else), ETC ?"
The ABS standard for testing forged blades is quite simple realy. This test is to see if one specific individual (the applicant) can, and has done the following:
First, Can you forge a blade? After all that is what the ABS is all about, Forged blades.
Second, Can you grind a blade that you forged?
Third, Can you properly heat treat the blade that you forged?
Fourth, Can you produce the edge geometry and sharpness, on the blade you forged, so that it will cut both hard and tough materials without loss of the ability to shave hair?
Fifth, Is the blade you forged flexable enough to bend 90 degrees and not break?
This is only the first step, If completed sucessfully, the applicant then must present 5 fully completed knives (forged and finished 100% by him/her) to be judged at the annual Atlanta Blade Show. If the knives are found, by the Collector and Master Smith judges, to be acceptable, the applicant will get a JS stamp.
The increase in quality of the knives submitted for a JS rate over the past few years has been nothing short of breath takeing. Knives submitted for JS rate by People like Bailey Bradshaw, Tim Foster, J.W Randall, Terry Primos, Ken Durham, John Fitch, Doug Noren and a basket full of others, had the quality of workmanship that would have been acceptable as MS quality only 10 years ago. Like it or not, the increase in proficiency of the new makers keeps pushing the bar higher and higher.
The possability of the ABS dropping the forged requirement is about as good as Ed dropping the use of 52100. No one has been a better champion of 52100 than Ed has.
A note of appology;
We who have been at this a long time tend to generalize and skip over specifics such as what steel we are talking about. When Ed talks about steel, most of us assume that is 52100. We just take it for granted that everyone knows that. If it seems like I'm at odds with Ed over that steel, I'm not. That's his ball park.
What I am saying is that there are other steels that have proven their worth as blade steel. Master Smiths such as,Jim Crowell, Jerry Fisk, Kevin Cashen, Roger Massey, Jim Walker, and a host of others have their favorite steels and can give you ample reason for doing so.:footinmou
