What is a Master Bladesmith and does it really matter?

[JParanee]

Thanks all for the info. Definitely better than google (which is where I started). That being said and not knowing Steven beyond this thread, a fedora does say something about someone, usually it says they sell cell phones in a mall kiosk or they are going bald.

That's funny

 

[JParanee]

Yes an MS stamp means something

I don't particularly target knives by MS Smiths though I have many friends that are and I own many MS knives

Heck a good friend of mine was a founding member

He doesn't use his stamp any longer but that's another story

The ABS is a wonderful organization but it's not the be all end all ..... at least to me

 

[2knife]

I can see where retaining the ABS MS title might be beneficial. It could help a knife maker stay relevant to the community, where otherwise he may risk falling into obscurity- or perceived as on the "fringe". I would think there is a financial advantage or incentive too, but I don't know personally.
David

 

[W Stelter]

MS are like the Eagle Scouts of the knife making world, it takes a long time to get there and they must pass both performance and fit and finish tests. And to agree with Lisch the last Winkler custom I saw went for upwards of two grand. Daniel makes very few customs these days because he is kept busy with Winkler II, but the fit and finish on his customs are exceptional despite the rustic theme.

 

[The Amazing Virginian]

wheelgunrambo: The amount of time and skill it takes to acquire an ABS 'Mastersmith' (MS) designation is NOT something to be taken lightly or to dismiss.

These guys, INCLUDING Daniel Winkler, spent years learning the craft and forging skills and then making a series of AT LEAST (10) knives to submit for testing (Five for the Journeyman smith (JS) prerequisite, and then five for the actual Mastersmith testing)

It's like a degree in college. After they have passed it shows they are CAPABLE of the highest standards. This does not mean they need to continue making knives of the test caliber.

I saw your query as analagous to cars: Are Maserati's, Mercedes' and Tesla's really needed? If all you need is basic transportation then, NO. Why pay extra?

For those who want the finest, they are willing to pay the extra, and while these cars may not do a lot of every-day driving; Pride of Ownership is real, and when they DO perform, it's outstanding.

IMO, the most important, relevant, and telling comment on this thread - maybe on this entire forum.

Why this reply? The OP clearly IS exercising motivation to "self-inform" online. He happened to choose this forum to do so. Where else would one go but where such a collection of knifemakers exists in one spot but one of the foremost sites FOR knifemakers, collectors, and enthusiasts? Even a Google search would likely lead him here. Besides, isn't a forum just a conversation? To call him ignorant or unmotivated is a bit unfair IMO. Personally, I gained a lot of useful info from this thread and I thank you for your explanation of necessary dues to ABS to maintain a rightfully earned title, (which I have some opinions about but I'll keep them to myself).

I agree.

Thanks all for the info. Definitely better than google (which is where I started). That being said and not knowing Steven beyond this thread, a fedora does say something about someone, usually it says they sell cell phones in a mall kiosk or they are going bald.

ROTFLMFAO!!! POTM - from a relative newbie to boot!

There are many Master Smiths out there who chose not to join the ABS, others once were members but have resigned, each for their own reasons. Some ABS Mastersmiths have never used their stamps, choosing to let their workmanship speak for itself.

The MS Stamp is no guarantee of quality it simply means that the maker made 10 good knives and passed some performance tests at one time. The only way you will know the quality of one of his knives made today is ask him the tasks his knives were designed and developed to perform and about his guarantee. Then judge the knife from your perspective.

A lot of good points here, IMO.

 

[HSC ///]

Just curious what you guys have to say about "Master Bladesmiths"

Having had the privilege of working with a few different MS for a total of some 16 days (spread out over time), I can say the following.

They are highly skilled, maybe that's obvious for any master level, but they are very highly skilled from my novice eyes.
They are very knowledgeable.
They are highly efficient.
They are very good designers.
They know how to make a good living at this craft.
They teach selectively.
They are also open to learning.
They have normal and personal interests outside of knifemaking outside of the knife world.

and as said earlier, they make very good affordable daily use knives as well.


so that's what I have to say about a Master Bladesmith.

 

[Dago Red]

As someone who appreciates the highest levels of craftsmanship, but admittedly doesn't own any MS knives:

I think the skills to create the knives necessary to pass the test are just amazing. I've read all the requirements, viewed different makers test knives, and it's really just impressive what men (and women) can do with their hands. In the gun world they have the ACGG, to do the same thing. And also I know one goal with ACGG is to try and encourage makers to share and pass on their skills so nothing is lost to time.

That said, I agree the best thing from the whole thread was the part about a person being able to but not always making every knife to that standard. Is that a bad thing, no. I think it's great when a maker turns out a knife that in performance and quality matches their pieces they make that are museum quality, but is clearly meant to be actually used. (Or is likely the point with most things once we pay a certain amount, carried and shown but not "used" hard. I mean really, what use in normal life is there for a 10" plus Bowie? But damn if they don't look amazing. And cut the head off a cigar quite well )

And there are craftsman that don't care about being recognized by a body. I was fortunate once to spend a couple days hanging out with one of the top rifle builders in the country. A custom starting around 20k at the time, for a bolt gun. He wasn't a member of ACGG for his own reasons, not that he couldn't have passed the requirements with flying colors. It's possible to pickup amazing knives from guys that I don't see stamping their blades with MS.

I come here and see guys that aren't in magazines yet or aren't MS and their work is excellent and you can pick things up for a fair price. Then you see a knife that is no better, but the guy is more well known and they're charging twice as much. More power to them of course, capitalism and all. I just think it's important to remember that stamps and magazine articles and price tags don't equate as a rule to different levels of craftsmanship. I'm in no way bashing these guys either. In addition to it being good business to charge what you can, it's also a way to control their output. A guy can only take so many orders, and churn out so much work. There is a balancing point where your pricing and therefor number of customers will even out with the amount of work you can do. If you're putting out your highest level work and getting more for it because you are at that point then that's great. Those become the collectors pieces that hold their value.

And therein for me is the best part. Trying to find that item when it is affordable, that's just as good as the piece the guys is going to have on the cover of a magazine the next year and get offered twice the money for. Right now there is a guy posting here a knife style that is awesome, the work is great, and his prices reasonable. I just saw a very similar knife by someone else in a magazine for twice as much. I'm hoping the maker here doesn't see that magazine before I have enough money to order from him

That is just my .02 as a consumer who loves fine craftsmanship of all forms. I hope the professionals here aren't offended by a non-maker posting on the topic.

Red

 

[Cliff Parker]

There are many Master Smiths out there who chose not to join the ABS, others once were members but have resigned, each for their own reasons. Some ABS Mastersmiths have never used their stamps, choosing to let their workmanship speak for itself.

The MS Stamp is no guarantee of quality it simply means that the maker made 10 good knives and passed some performance tests at one time. The only way you will know the quality of one of his knives made today is ask him the tasks his knives were designed and developed to perform and about his guarantee. Then judge the knife from your perspective.

That says it all