What is a micro bevel on a scandi grind?

Big Mike said:
1/32"? That's a serious secondary bevel for a Scandi.


I suspect the maker is afraid of thinning the edge enough to make a true zero edge Scandi.

They can be quite fragile.


Calling 1/32" secondary bevels on a knife advertised as a Scandi grind to be a “secondary micro convex bevel” sounds misleading to me.


To me, a “secondary micro convex bevel” on a Scandi grind would be along the lines of stropping a zero edge Scandi to polish the edge.


JMHO, YMMV.




Big Mike
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Thanks for all the replies
This reply is what I need to hear

So to conclude...
If I was told a “secondary micro convex bevel”
And I get a 1/32" bevel, as seen below
I can reasonably go back to the maker and say "I have not got what you advertised"
Correct?


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Well I don't think you will find any knifenut, who will argue that, that is only a micro bevel.
A picture is worth a thousind words, and in this case its true :0)
 
neeman said:
Thanks for all the replies
This reply is what I need to hear

So to conclude...
If I was told a “secondary micro convex bevel”
And I get a 1/32" bevel, as seen below
I can reasonably go back to the maker and say "I have not got what you advertised"
Correct?


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Click to expand...

I would say correct.

I have full flat grinds with less secondary bevel than that.
 
neeman said:
Thanks for all the replies
This reply is what I need to hear

So to conclude...
If I was told a “secondary micro convex bevel”
And I get a 1/32" bevel, as seen below
I can reasonably go back to the maker and say "I have not got what you advertised"
Correct?


attachment.php

attachment.php

attachment.php
Click to expand...

Neil,

There is nothing "micro" about that secondary bevel. IMO a microbevel should be near impossible to see with the naked eye, much less measure.

This Tommi puukko has a microbevel.

mymikkoinkeroinentommi3.jpg


You can see a bit of it near the tip, but that's attributable to the lighting and picture magnification. It's very difficult to see otherwise.
 
Last edited:
The picture Neeman shows isn't a micro-bevel to my eyes. Although I'd keep it and just sharpen it out, I'd still let the maker aware of it before doing anything to it.


I've had good results following Rod Garcia's (SBT) advice on micro-bevels. Takes a little trial and error but you wind up with a scandi edge that tends not to roll so easy. The key word is "micro".

This type of bevel has superior wood carving characteristics compared to other types of bevels. However, it is more prone to edge rolling (compared to thicker, secondary bevel type bevels) because of the sinuous nature of the bevel if the edge is not prepped properly or is being abused. Steel is just so strong and even CPM 3V will tolerate just so much when you consider how thin the actual cutting edge is.

The SBT MK1 leaves my shop with a sharp edge that I finish on the grinder with a well worn 600 grit belt. This edge will shave hair but I do not consider it a working edge just yet. There will most likely be a very fine wire edge remaining, this is especially true with A2. This is where the new owner comes in. When the new knife is received the owner should put the knife to a strop and work the edge until the wire is removed. The more stropping you do the more of a convex edge will occur. This slight convex edge will increase the strength of the actual cutting edge without inhibiting the superior carving of the scandi flat grind bevel ( the amount of convexity created will be very small). Another option is to create a micro bevel by going back to the honing stone, tipping the edge up another 15-20 degrees beyond the bevel face and put ten-fifteen strokes on each side of the edge and go back to the strop. This will give you a stronger general purpose edge. Remember, these are general suggestions, knife makers have no control over the skill levels of the user and their sharpening equipment. The user will need to work out their own program.
 
Big Mike said:
Remember, what we are talking about here is what the maker refers to as a “secondary micro convex bevel” on a knife billed as a Scandi grind.

We are not talking about regular secondary bevels.
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Hey Mike,

I think we have a second discussion evolving along with / below the original one. The second one is more about how to sharpen a full scandi in general, and that was where I added my two cents.

Best regards,

ll.
 
Thanks you for all your responses

I am now in correspondance with the maker
I will see what happens

Also
I am clear that I cannot grind down this O1 knife to a full scandi grind
I have tried on smaller $20 scandi knives with softer steels, and bowed out my 250 waterstone!
 
neeman said:
Thanks you for all your responses

I am now in correspondance with the maker
I will see what happens
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If your not happy with it send it back or sell it.


Life too short to lament customs that did not turn out as promised.




Big Mike
 
In my opinion - you don't have a scandi - you have a low flat sabre ground blade with a secondary bevel.

Here is a Bernie Garland that has been zero ground, sharpened on flat stones, and put to a strop - if this is a micro-bevel - this is what it looks like:

BernieGarlandBushcrafter004.jpg


TF
 
Talfuchre said:
In my opinion - you don't have a scandi - you have a low flat sabre ground blade with a secondary bevel.
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My opinion as well. The purpose of a microbevel is to give to the edge some stability (avoid the annoying rolling in most cases and, for very hard steels, chipping). It helps, too, to maintain the edge with ease (few strops on leather, fabrics, cardboard or strokes on a stone). But there the bevels aren't micro at all. They thick dramatically the edge.

Micro for micron and 1µ= 0,001 mm. It gives you an idea of the scale.

dantzk.
 
Seeing these pics now I see what everyone else said, definitely not a micro bevel and not the way I sharpen my Scandi's. I would classify that as a short saber grind for sure.
 
Big Mike said:
If your not happy with it send it back or sell it.


Life too short to lament customs that did not turn out as promised.




Big Mike
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Yep. Custom prices don't always equate to custom performance. Sorry to see you got such a horrible grind on your knife. You have all the short cummings of both a scandi and a sabre grind and none of the benefits. I'm with everyone in thinking it's a low sabre grind with a secondary edge bevel.
 
The maker is a gentleman and has already sent me an email asking how I would like the refund.

The talk about flat and secondary is very interesting.
Looking at the geometery of different blades, some of them have much shallower grinds, to a place where a secondary bevel on this shallow would equal a primary flat scandi on other bladesthat are thicker with a more obtuse blade
 
neeman said:
The maker is a gentleman and has already sent me an email asking how I would like the refund.

The talk about flat and secondary is very interesting.
Looking at the geometery of different blades, some of them have much shallower grinds, to a place where a secondary bevel on this shallow would equal a primary flat scandi on other bladesthat are thicker with a more obtuse blade
Click to expand...


Glad the maker's a man of honor, most are.


And when it comes to Scandi grinds, I've seen a few zero edge Scandi's that where so obtuse it was baffling.





Big Mike
 
If it was me I would have shied away from any maker who said that.

In general like was said if you sharpen much freehand, or strop you are going to end up with a slight microbevel on your scandi.

But IF THERE IS A SECONDARY I WANT TO PUT IT ON MYSELF.

For me, it is WAY easier to put the correct bevel for my use on a thin scandi or convex edge than to remove a secondary on a scandi or thin down a really thick convex.
 
Shotgun said:
Yep. Custom prices don't always equate to custom performance.
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Absolutely.

I've got customs that would have never made it thru production QC. Also generally if you order a production knife you get what you see. I've ordered customs, and then the maker has decided to tweak the design without telling me.

Also many custom makers do not have all the skill or machinery maybe they need and they wind up making knives in the way that is easiest for them to crank out rather than the easiest for the end user to use.
 
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