What is a survival knife ?

Spyderco makes a couple of knives with H1 steel that can't rust. They are sold under the "Pacific Salt" and "Salt" names. From what I have read the H1 steel is high performance and really won't rust. Hard to believe, I know.

http://spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=128

Thanks a lot! I found a pacific salt on ebay for $46...a good buy I think certainly not to hard on the pocketbook, been wanting an excuse for a spidey anyways...the H1 steel should be very durable as well as corrosion resistant. Does anyone have/like this knife?
 
This knife would have to do it all....from knocking down trees to reaching into the peanutbutter jar....
One knife to use for;....for food, shelter, defense, firstaid, everything.

Just where did you get that peanutbutter jar from if this is a real survival situation? :p :D

I do agree that context has a lot to do with it. :thumbup:

KR
 
You toke the point of my post and put it in other words and got it right :thumbup: :)

Thanks.
Sometimes it's not so easy getting points across in the back n forth of a forum.

A Survival Knife is the one that gets you out of the situation at hand, or perhaps the one that could have gotten the person out of their situation.
 
"That machete or big chopper looks great, buried in a log, next to the firewood at camp-central , but when you fall into the rushing river, and go miles downstream through the rapids, it's the SAK in your pocket that then becomes your "Survival Knife". Skunk

Well said. What you carry is important, how you carry it doubly so. I know from personal experience that the bush has to be really heavy for me to tolerate a 14 inch machete on my belt, then it goes back on the pack. I will leave my BK-7 on my belt all the time and do so when in the bush.

If I am in the wilderness I think it is very important to carry the essentials on my body. My BK-7 and canteen/cup is on my belt, NRGS around the neck inside my shirt and my compass is tied onto my pocket.

My BK-7 is set up as a PSK and with it I have resources to cover the basics. In my definition that is my "survival knife" and I don't leave the car for the bush without it on my belt.

The loss of your gear due to a vehicle getting destroyed, a boat overturned, or crossing a river is a very real possiblity. You only have what you have on your body so make sure it is secure. All the other stuff is for making life easy when things are going right. The dedicated survival essentials are for when things turn south in a hurry.

f_macsfotosi_ce05m_bb253f3.jpg


Here's a shot of my "survival knife" and the essentials I would like to have with me. This is about the minumum load that I intentionally carry in the bush in Brazil.

Mac
 
Pict is right on. In order for any gear to be useful it has to be there when needed. Any gear in the pack has to be considered expendable. Anything necessary has to be on the belt or in the pockets. When in the bush I have my edc SAK Soldier or Rucksack in my pocket. On the belt is a sheath knife with a 4-7 inch blade depending upon situation or circumstances. Matches in water proof container and /or lighter or metal match and film canister of vaseline soaked cotton are in pockets or pouch on belt. Cordage is stuffed in pocket with a bit of wire. With this I can stay out for several days without much trouble.
 
When it gets down to it, the knowledge of the person in how to use a knife is gonna outweigh what knife, a lot of the time.


this reminds me of how I cringe everytime I see Man Meets Wild character pounding his folding kife with a rock to chop a small branch. I wonder if he would be doing that if he were all alone without his camera crew:D
 
Well said. What you carry is important, how you carry it doubly so. Pict

And same back to you Pict, also a good point. Belts, dummy cords, leashes, whatever someone needs should be employed to keep the important equipment fastened to ones self.
 
What he DID say is, by definition, absolutely correct.

No it isn't, and it shows fundamentally a huge problem in perception. As an obvious example, there are lots of enviroments where SPECIFIC clothing is critical. If you are not wearing it then you are dead and literally in seconds. Simply wearing something doesn't make it survival clothing and if you actually said that to an alaskan crab fisherman they would look at you really odd because they know that survival clothes have specific requirements just like all other tools.

So part of survival is knowing your enviroment and making sure you have what you need when you need it. This is no different for example than saying that being a CPA is a tropical wilderness survival skill if you happen to be a CPA because obviously it is a skill you will have at all times. That of course is absurd just like the knife definition. It is a survival item/skill if it is actually designed/goaled to optimally aid you in surviving.

-Cliff
 
Cliff, don't be silly. It is NOT a HUGE PROBLEM IN PERCEPTION.
It's dealing with reality. It's self actualization, and the ability to recognize that survival situations don't happen when we are most prepared and best equipped for them.

-We weren't talking about clothing nor being a CPA. You digress.

-We didn't say you could transfer one skill for another.
You are not even arguing a tengential point, it's an entirely different point altogether, and it's one that no one has suggested. We did NOT say you could compensate for lack of fire by collecting more water!
Why would you even make that leap, or suggest that is what is being supported? I find that absurd, to use your own words.

It's apples and oranges.

Optimal has nothing to do with it. A survival situation is far from optimal. More on that later.

You cannot compensate for water collection by conducting a financial audit (duh?) No one went there.
However, to a great extent, you CAN compensate for lack of a 7" inch knife with a 3.75" knife. Just like you can compensate for not having a $100 compass by having a $5 pin-on compass. It's all just gear. [gasp]
(I know, I know, there are many "Knife Centrists" around, and we may have trouble lumping knives in with other gear). :eek:
Along those lines, We COULD use this same logic with many pieces of gear.
We can get along without a $50 titanium cup by using a metal soupcan.
We can compensate for lack of a tent with a poncho or even a hefty bag.
We can compensate for not having a 10" knife with our 5" knife.
and so on.

In the big big world of broad generalities, the one you have opened, from clothing to CPAs , a blade is a blade. It's one more piece of gear, yes, an important one, but, it's gear. The knife you have with you at the time you find yourself in a survival situation WILL, by default, BE your survival blade, that is, should you survive. If not, it's your "death blade".

I wonder what kind of knife the woman in Gila N.M. had?
Whatever it was, even if it was a small imported (cheap) knife, it WAS her "survival knife". If she never used it, then one may be able to reasonably say it wasn't really her survival knife. But if she did use it, then it aided in her survival, therefor becoming her survival knife.

But, contrary to the clothing example you used, the Alaskan fishermen, any given knife does not automatically doom your existance. Just like a chosen knife does NOT gaurantee your survival. One could reasonably argue that a $3.99 chinese-made folder would reduce your abilities to survive by a measured extent, over having a Large high carbon fixed blade, but , it doesn't mean you are automatically Dead because all you have is a cheap folder.

SO Cliff, are you saying after being swept down stream and the person only has a small folder after the ordeal, they should simply throw it in the river, since it is obviously worthless and wasn't designed with survival in mind? [rhetorical]

If we spill our canoe in the rapids, and we drag our sorry ass to shore, and check our pockets, and have an SAK, (our hatchet and fixed blade are gone) and the SAK is all we have, tell me, at that moment, as we stand there wet and cold, what is our "survival knife"??
It's not the fixed blade at the bottom fo the river. It's the SAK, of course.
(I don't think this concept is lost on many of the readers.)

Would we "prefer" a different blade? Well , probably.
Should we have prepared better and had our favorite fixed blade fastened to our person? an emphatic "YES".
AT that moment we get to shore, do we have a choice? No.
To reiterate: NO, we are wet, cold, and standing at river's edge with our SAK.
Attention: Survival Situation begins HERE.

(disclaimer: Not a knock on SAKs, I would actually be relieved that it was my SAK.) Replace SAK with Mora Clipper, etc. still the same idea.

Cliff, If you claim we should strap the correct gear onto our bodies, firmly, so that we DO, in fact, have the exact necessary survival knife/gear, with us, at all times, then you are only reiterating what Pict and others have already said, and correctly so.
And that is actually the point to all of us, if we don't want to end up at river's edge with only a folder, we better damn-sight make sure we have our most precious gear strapped to our butt all the time. Otherwise, our survival gear, not only our blades, will be determined by the balance of: the sum of our gear, minus what went to the bottom of the river.

You interjected the word optimally in your last sentence, somehow changing the arguement?

I would submit that a survival situation is never "optimal" , or else, it wouldn't be a survival situation. What makes it a survival situation are any of the handicaps or challenges, a person may be faced with: no knife, no firemaking, no shelter, no water, bad weather, hungry bears, etc.
We mitigate the number of survival situations we find ourselves in, and the severity of them, by being skilled, prepared, and equipped to deal with them.

Optimally speaking, if we were skilled enough, prepared enough, no sitaution would truly be a survival situation.

"A Survival Knife is the one you have with you when you find yourself in that situation" .... can also be stated another way ...... "Prepare yourself with a proper blade, one that can handle all of the tasks necessary in a survival situation, becuase if not, you may find your only survival knife is a cheap chinese folder in your pocket, and you really wouldn't want that, now would you?"

"The one you have with you" is not a statement of complacency, to somehow say, "HO hum, whatever you have is FINE" , Not at all!

It's a wake up call!!

It's a statement meant to provoke action on an individuals' part, to prepare themselves, and remain prepared or face the consequences for lack of preparedness.

It's like saying , "Carry a quality knife, meant for the tasks, as your life may depend on it."

Surely no one here will argue that statement? :thumbup:
 
I think you are missing Cliffs point. If I were traveling in in the rocky mountains I would carry a different knife than if I were on a cruize ship. Where you may end up in a survival situation may dictate what knife you should have when you leave home.

Leon Pugh
 
Just where did you get that peanutbutter jar from if this is a real survival situation?
So I was thinking, to myself about how long a good survival knife should be?
I believe that the length of the knife should about match the length of a good "camping" knife.
The difference would be that a camping knife would not need to be used as a spear or take down a tree to build a raft or stuff like that.

However on the other hand, the length of a good camp knife is about the length needed to dip to the bottom of a peanutbutter jar, would a good survival knife be asked to do less?....I dont think so.

Thus if I were to think about making a good survival knife I would want it to have about the same length as a good camp knife more or less about a 6-inch min blade.

The good survival knife would be a Full Tang knife, with handle slabs that could be taken off so as to make it a good spear point.
To make a better spear poing the tang should have holes inside it for lashing it better to a pole.

Rust is always a concern with any knife...although you might want to go with a stainless steel, you would not have to. In a survival situation the problem of rust really would not be a factor to a guy.

The shape of the blade is more important. I would think that a good survival knife might need a spear point, with a thick spine to allow a person to batten wood with a rock hammer.

Should a survival knife be reall sharp?
yes, all knives should be really sharp. But I dont know if a thin grind is best as you will not want the blade to ever be in danger of chipping or snapping on you.

the handle might make use of a flair at the butt end to catch the hand more as the knife is swung around while chopping a tree down....
 
My grading system is simple: The knife is there or it isn't, 90% or zero. It's used or it isn't, 10% or zero. You can fine tune the ranking and adjust that 10% all day long. The big issue is that 90%, it's either with you or it's not.

Survival situations don't all happen in the wilderness and they aren't generally planned. If I knew I was going to be in a survival situation, I'd bend space-time and simply not be there.

One attribute that is usually neglected in these discussions is the convenience of carry of any particular "survival" knife. If it doesn't carry well and therefore isn't with you when you really need it, it's a poor survival knife. I've heard it said that "90% of any job is simply being there". When I was flying for the Navy I always had that Air Force Survival Knife in my vest, never used it, not for anything. It was always with me when flying, but it wasn't a useful knife and that's the other 10%. So the AFSK got 90% for being there and never being used. I also always carried a folder and since I used that knife a lot it got full credit -- 100%.

I've found that in most of the survival situations I might be caught up in, a large chopper such as my Fehrman Final Judgement (FFJ) won't be at hand. I won't have my camping gear because I won't be camping. (If I have all my camping gear, I'm probably not in a survival situation) At best it will be in the back of my truck with other camping gear that I don't have access to; I don't take it flying and I don't take it to the office. However, I always carry a high quality locking folder and I always have an SAK Rucksack and a second locking folder in my EDC backpack -- 100%. Since the FFJ won't fit in that pack and won't be there -- 10%.

Near the top of my list of requirements for a survival knife is that it needs to be easy enough to carry that I always have it with me. Doug Ritter designed a pretty good knife in the RSK Mk1™ Folding Knife and while it wouldn't be my first choice if I knew I was going to be in a wilderness survival situation (there's that space-time thing again), it's a very capable knife that is in my pocket (right now, as I type on my laptop). It will be with me in an elevator, at an executive meeting, when I walk into the bank and when I go out to dinner with my GF. So while the FFJ gets 10% for being a great knife that isn't there, the RSK gets 100% for being a very good knife that is there.

While proper gear is always optimum and desired, many/most survival situations are come as you are, and that usually means with what's in your pockets and close at hand.
 
If you carry and use a knife, prior to needing it in earnest, then you already know if it's a knife you want to carry, or not.

Something that is actually going to make the decision for us, as to what we have with us in certain situations, are the regulations and laws of a particular state, or area. For instance, where I do a lot of my hiking, I have to access the area by passing through a county park, where no knife is legal to carry. However, the on site rangers and I have an understanding that they will allow me to carry a SAK or multitool, but they will not give me permission to carry a fixed blade on my belt, which is where it would have to be carried, according to state law.

Sure, I could sneak one in under a coat, or in my pack, but if they decided to search my gear and found it, I would have betrayed their trust, lost my knife and maybe my freedom, which I'm not willing to do, so I stick to the SAKs. Do I think that it weakens my ability to survive? Nope! Would I prefer to have my M2K with me? You betcha I would!;)
 
Ras,,,I will give you a Survival situation,,,you give me the knife I need.
Lets say we only have one and only one knife to do the things on my list...

make a shelter,
cut down up to 6 inch thick trees to make a raft.
become a spear to kill a wild hog.
take out a splinter from a toe.
......reach to the bottom of the jar of SKIPPY .....
fish with...(This may mean chopping an ice hole)
and serve as personal protection from anything....
serve to be able to split firewood, and/or be hit on the spine hard as with with a rock
--------------------------

Do all this with only One knife.....
 
Those are tasks, not necessarily a survival situation. How about I give you a situation and you tell me what knife you have with you?
 
David E,

Anecdote here. I was at the grand canyon. A ranger there noticed a little stainless steel tubular LED light I had dangling from a belt pouch zipper. He perks up and gets all intrested in a fake kind of way. "Hey, what's that you got there, that's really neat!" I looked at him like he was from Mars or something. I twisted it on and showed it to him. "It's a little flashlight."

He lost intrest immediately. I asked him what he thought it was. "Oh, I thought it was a crack pipe."

Probable cause is what they make it. Mac
 
...Probable cause is what they make it. Mac

Exactly. I was stopped by a trooper just last week. First time in many years. Why? Flying down the highway coming toward me he couldn't see my seat belt. So he checked my driver's license. He had reason to believe I didn't have one? Then he claimed he saw my daughter reach down (as he was doing a doughnut in the highway a half mile behind me). So? She has it on. He let me go with a speach, but could well have used any excuse to search my vehicle, and me. "I thought I saw", I thought I smelled", "I though he was". All probable cause in today's world. In National Parks and many State Parks, a permit is required. Some items are forbidden. Taking a mineral or plant sample can result in a hefty fine. They reserve the right to search pockets and packs if they have reason to believe you might be conceiling something. Kidnapping a spotted owl maybe. Do you know you can be arrested for posessing an owl, eagle, or hawk feather?

Codger
 
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