What is an Integral Knife?

Kevin Jones

Kevin Jones

Joined
Oct 28, 2006
Messages
13,363
Many very GOOD threads here over the Holidays, and some are revealing very good questions. For example, the Bowie/Fighter definition thread.

Yes, there's some very basic custom knife questions without universally accepted answers.

Here's another; What is an Integral?

My definition is a knife forged and/or ground from a single billet of material.

• Is a knife with an attached guard and/or pummel an Integral?

• Do we use the term too loosely these days?

• Are there varying degrees of Integrals? Full? Partial?

Feel free to post photos of Integrals.

Thanks in advance for your participation.
 
Usually among knife nuts speaking about folding knives the term 'integral' refers to the lock type of a folder. The integral lock is a way to include all leaf spring type locks IE, liner locks and frame locks into one lump sum total speaking of them as a whole. Since the two types (frame and liner locks) have so much in common there are times when what is being related about one will also be good for the other so many that refer to the integral are referring to both when they mention it that way.

On separate issues they are usually referred to solely for the type lock being discussed. "liner locks" are also referred to quite commonly as the 'Walker Lock' and "frame locks" are often times calle a "mono lock" but when you see these by themselves that is speaking directly about that type lock excluding the other type.

Edit: I should have added that integral can also be referring to a fixed blade and certain techniques in the build type of the handle and blade and how they and other parts all come together. Way late getting here but I had some trouble finding the thread again.

STR
 
This very nice Rodrigo Sfreddo Chute Knife supports my definition of a "FULL" Integral and is from the Paul Kessler collection:

Chute_Knife_1.jpg


Chute_Knife_3.jpg


Chute_Knife_1.jpg
 
I think this knife can be classified as an integral. My EDC, a Mike Lovett Integral City Knife.

DSC_0002-4.jpg
 
World Book defines INTEGRAL as: "made up of parts that together constitute a whole".
This is the only picture I have at the moment, but many integrals are forged from round bar. Having no round 5160, I had to use my 1 inch square for this one, so FIRST I had to forge the square into round!
integral-1.jpg


IO5-2.jpg
 
ptgdvc said:
Frankly, I was a bit taken aback by this.

http://www.rodrigosfreddo.com/worksh...ma=2&artigo=22

Upon reflection, I am not quite as impressed as I was.

P
Click to expand...
But, you need to give him credit on this one. At first glance, one might think he's "cheating" by doing that welding, but in fact, he would need to do it that way because of the characteristics of Turkish Twist. To get a multi-bar of Turkish Twist large enough to make an integral of that size would take about a week of shop time!
He did what he had to do, but I would be VERY reluctant to pass it off as an "integral"!
 
Kevin Jones said:
My definition is a knife forged and/or ground from a single billet of material.
Click to expand...

The above is what I envision when I hear the term integral, in relation to a knife.

To me it indicates that the blade, frame/tang, guard and pommel are ground or forged from one continuous piece of metal, to expand on what Kevin posted (I think this is what he meant).

It would seem that any parts/pieces that are welded, pinned or otherwise attached would negate the integral classification.

This is a great question.
 
ptgdvc said:
Frankly, I was a bit taken aback by this.

http://www.rodrigosfreddo.com/worksh...ma=2&artigo=22

Upon reflection, I am not quite as impressed as I was.

P
Click to expand...




i'd have to agree with peter on this one......if you are welding on pieces for guards,etc.....then it is not an integral......an integral should be a blade forged from one piece of steel(damascus or not) ......i think rodrigo made a beautiful blade.......just don't call it an integral......i can understand witht the elaborate pattern why he did it.......i just think it was mis-labeled........ryan
 
Interesting question ...... I think if we are going to define an integral by reference to a billet, what do you class as a billet?

Billet Definition: A hot-worked cast or forged semifinished block of material suitable for subsequent rolling, forging, extruding, etc

One could therefore argue that any material that is primarily joined by a hot forging process is a billet ..... take for example a billet of multibar damascus, initially the bars are welded on the outer surface(to hold them in place) and then hot forged together, the bars are rotated and turned to get a pattern. I see nothing different in what Rodrigo is doing for example, except he is "shaping" the billet before the hot forging (any welds are on the outer surface to hold the bars in place prior to hot forge). This primarily negates too much waste and grinding, and ensures allignment of pattern.

To produce an integral from a block of sufficient volume to accommodate "stock removal or milling to shape" and wasting a tremendous amount out materials doesn't make sense when the primary benefit of the forging process is in the blade.

Further more the word integral indicates the presence of all essential parts in its primary form. The shaped billet is hot forged together in the same way as any multibar damascus billet, therefore its essential form is that of a forged billet of pattern welded steel with the exception that is is not a "rectangular" block. Or are we going to now say damascus integrals are not integrals because they started off as separate billets of steel?

Karl: The integral you show has a different finish on the ferrule/collar ... is that integral to the forged blade or added after the forge? .... if it is added it is not integral by a lot of peoples definitions!


Have a look at Jerrys Micro show pieces, he adds an engraved pommel to most of what he calls an integral!

Cheers,

Stephen
 
This is the way one of Edmund Davidson's Full Integrals starts out.
I think the picture says it all.....
The process of making a Full Integral knife begins with a bar of steel
and a Plexiglas knife-pattern template. This is the bar of D-2 steel that
will eventually become knife #1 in a series of five Integrals made to
commemorate the publishing of a book about Edmund and his 22 years
of knifemaking.

David Darom (ddd)

picture.JPG
 
My Mentor and Friend Edmund Davidson.

Full Integral = Front and Rear bolster/guard.

I think Edmund is the King of Integrals.

I am obviously biased but then again he taught me how to make knives.

EDMUND20DAVIDSON.jpg
 
Where the bolster and / or guard is of the same - but thicker - piece of steel as the blade, that's my definition of intergal. I don't distinguish between "full" or "half" integrals based on whether the pommel or butt cap is also part of the same piece of steel - both are types of integrals.

I love Paul's Sfreddo knife and hereby call dibs!

Roger
 
I would rather have welded fittings like that Sfreddo than pins and glue, wouldn't you Peter? :0

Homogeneity is the key. If you have to weld the guard on in that fashion to get the "right" pattern, I would still call that "Integral". Damascus steel is just steel welded together after all.

There are many ways to skin a cat. In fact, Karl's takedown has the tang welded on and thats OK, right? (I think it is, becasue I love takedowns..)
 
Bladeandbarrel said:
I would rather have welded fittings like that Sfreddo than pins and glue, wouldn't you Peter? :0

Homogeneity is the key. If you have to weld the guard on in that fashion to get the "right" pattern, I would still call that "Integral". Damascus steel is just steel welded together after all.

There are many ways to skin a cat. In fact, Karl's takedown has the tang welded on and thats OK, right? (I think it is, becasue I love takedowns..)
Click to expand...


This is the third time I've agreed with you today - I'm DONE! :p

Roger
 
RogerP said:
Where the bolster and / or guard is of the same - but thicker - piece of steel as the blade, that's my definition of intergal. I don't distinguish between "full" or "half" integrals based on whether the pommel or butt cap is also part of the same piece of steel - both are types of integrals.

I love Paul's Sfreddo knife and hereby call dibs!

Roger
Click to expand...

Happy New Year Roger and Happy New Year to all on the Forum.
Consider your "dibs" duly noted!

Paul
 
This is how Edmund Davidson defines his Integrals:
"This process is different from the techniques used to construct any other
type of fixed-blade knife. Here, the knifemaker is dealing with a bar of steel
that is the whole knife during the entire process of working on it, from
start to finish.  Except for the  handle inlays, it is all one piece of steel".

And this is what he did with a 30 pound bar of steel......

David Darom (ddd)

picture.JPG
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top