What is INFI w/o nitrogen?

Joined
Aug 8, 1999
Messages
406
I didn't want to put this in the Busse forum beacause I want a broader range of facts.

Is there any steel that is as good as INFI regarding edge holding and toughness and anything else?
If INFI didn't have nitrogen, would it decrease the performance by a wide margin?
If nitrogen was added to other steels such as ATS-54, 154-CM, CPM-440V, or whatever, would it make those steels any better?

I don't know much about steels. Actually, I don't know anything at all. Thanks for your input.
 
E_WOK; go to the front page of BFC: http://www.bladeforums.com/ click on 'links', then go to knowledge base. You will be here: http://www.bladeforums.com/features/faqs.html

There you will find a wonderful series of articles, including blade geometry and an excellent discussion of the various types of steels, by Joe Talmadge, one of our most erudite posters. He also provides several links for further perusal.

Another good site for reading about steel, especially tool steel, is the Crucible site: http://www.crucibleservice.com/crumain2.htm

There was an extensive discussion of INFI several months ago, but I can't find it by searching. Perhaps another poster can aid us.

To answer your questions about INFI, it is, by elemental composition, a rather plain steel, somewhat similar to A2, if memory serves me . Without the N, it would be very mundane. INFI's performance has been tested, but results, while encouraging, are preliminary.

The process of the nitrogen addition is very hush hush. I suspect, however, that it probably wouldn't do much good to high alloy steels, such as ATS-34 or the CPM steels. I believe that the nitrogen is added to a low alloy steel to make the steel perform much better than it otherwise would. This is a cost saving process, making a very good performing steel out of an otherwise low alloy steel, by adding a very inexpensive element, N.

There you go, I hope that this helps.

There is a favor I have to ask of you. If you are not terribly attached to your logon name, would you mind changing it? I realize this is an unusual request, and you are free to deny it, but there is a prolific and extremely good poster whose logon is EWOK, and I see a lot of confusion occuring between the two of you with your present logon names. I certainly hope that my request does not offend you, and you are certainly free to have any logon you desire, but would consider it a favor if you would favorably view my request.

Welcome to the forum!! Walt
 
Thanks. Does somebody have a problem with me or my posts? I don't see that there should be any problem because of my location and different name.
 
INFI is 50100B. That is 52100 with a little more Vanadium and a little less Chromium. So 52100 compare very good to it.

Oh one thing if you look at general spec sheet for 52100 it will say it has NO Vanadium in it, but all the good stuff has a little in it. I think 52100 is the best steel there is! (IMHO)
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-Greg Johnson
ICQ#4236341

 
I believe the thread (mid-1999) which the good Dr Welch is referring to is at:

www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum12/HTML/000691.html

The composition analysis of INFI there (see its last entry) has been confirmed by Jerry Busse. Just for clarification: it does not at all resemble 52100. INFI has far *more* chromium (approx 8.25%), far *less* carbon (.5%), good dose of cobalt (.95%), and that intriguing nitrogen (.11%).

... But 52100 is certainly outstanding, the best for many, many good folks like gregj62. Check out, for example, Ed Caffrey's site:

www.mtn-webtech.com/~caffrey

FYI,
Glen (NOT a metallurgist, just an overindulgent reader ...)
 
Opps I was thinking of Cold steel's carbon V

One more thing, on the nitrogen I was told by somebody that works for a metal smelter that nitrogen is used to keep steel "clean" and they use it on other steels. Now I don't know for sure if this is true just what I was told. I think there are some people on this forum that work in the industray that makes steel if there are please explane it. TIA

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-Greg Johnson
ICQ#4236341

 
The secret of INFI is not the Nitrogen but how Jerry gets it in the steal and more importantly how he keeps it there. The steel is by no means a cheap steel with N added. It is it's own class of steel, although it shares the properties of several steels.

Jerry pays mega bucks to get this stuff made.

Also Carbon V steel is now it's own REAL steel. Yes it used to be 1095 slightly modifed but that is no more. I can't say any more about it either.

I do have a question. Why is it these people keep telling me how they make their steels and then swear me to secrecy?
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Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
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I wish people would tell me how they make their steels, then swear me to secrecy. I might buy a Busse, but not until the analysis of INFI is released. I'm an engineer; I'm uncomfortable not knowing that stuff. Anyone know when they will be releasing that information?

--JB

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e_utopia@hotmail.com
 
I will observe that 0.11% Nitrogen (presummably by weight) is a huge amount of Nitrogen. I have to assume it is in the form of a Nitride (maybe Chromium Nitride). That would be the only way you could calculate a precise amount.

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Jerry Hossom
www.hossom.com
 
GaKnife; I also believe that the N is in the form of a nitride. This would account for the higher than expected hardness of the alloy.

People tell Mike all sorts of secrets. It makes him feel impotent, er, ah, that is, IMPORTANT.
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E_WOK, if EWOK doesn't object or find any confusion between the two of you, then it seems that there is no problem. Walt
 
The reason for the use of Nitrogen in most steel making processes is to reduce/remove oxygen. This reduces brittleness and porosity. Hydrogen is also used in this type of process, but can have explosive consequences.

I have no idea what the purpose of nitrogen within a steel is, but it obviously works in INFI's case.
 
Many people have no use for Cobalt either
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Yes a good part of the reason for the Nitrogen is the removal of Oxygen.

Oxygen=Bad
Nitrogen=Good


------------------
Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
Show Your Support -Visit Our Sponsors - Click On The Banners!
Visit www.onestopknifeshop.com
All sales from 1 Stop Knife Shop help support this site!
 
Hey! are you saying you have no use for me? Cobalt is good for you.
 
Just kidding Cobalt
smile.gif

And we are getting overun by little furry creatures from Endor!

One of you could change your name to Wicket.

------------------
Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
Show Your Support -Visit Our Sponsors - Click On The Banners!
Visit www.onestopknifeshop.com
All sales from 1 Stop Knife Shop help support this site!
 
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