What is the big deal???

[seanuhthin]

Hmm....okay...hypothetically my first choice in a survival situation wouldn't be going mano-a-oso with Yogi.

But...if I was compelled to do so, I'd probably use that awesome RC-4 to start a fire, harden some spears, and then carve out some spear points. Then, using cordage either carried or made, I'd set up some tension traps and hope I'd get lucky.

Personally I'd E&E the heck out of there, and find a less...aggressively populated area.

Back on topic, this is the big deal:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qtJyQgXTio

A knife that can stand up to that.

I didn't state that it would be a fine survival knife for making fires and cutting things simply because everyone knows it is. I said that if the event arises that you are being attacked it would work quite fine as a weapon. thats all!!

 

[R.A.T.]

To be honest, we're really not looking for more customers or dealers.

I really am struggling with this statement.. I do not own a Rat. I have been considering it for sometime now.. I read such terrific things about these knives and the brand loyalty appears to be the one of the strongest of any on BF. It appears RAT can survive/flourish with the RAT pack, and is not interested in anymore customers.

As a business owner who gets up everyday to gain new customers, I am confused.

I know that may sound strange, and maybe even a little snobbish, but it was not the intent. My point is we about have all the business we can do at this stage. While some businesses want to grow large, we don't! The larger we get the more we will lose that face-to-face interaction with the customer, simply due to there only being so many hours in a day (not to mention our survival related business). RAT has never been about knives. Knives are a consequence of what we do. To be real honest, this business has grown a lot faster than we ever wanted. We are even talking about slowing it down and maybe limiting how much we do every year since we don't want to lose that personal, hands-on interaction or the philosophy that brought us to the point we are at. If it ever quits being fun we will quit! I know it may sound strange wanting to slow business down but our company is nothing like any other knife or gear company out there. Customer and no-bullshit product come first. Sales and profits come second. We don't answer to a board of directors and we have zero debt so we can concentrate on actually getting out in the wilds and making new stuff instead of worrying about this month's sales numbers. We run ads in the magazines mainly to draw more attention to our survival schools. Again, RAT is fun for us. It allows us to get out in the jungles and woods and learn and teach skills. That's what we do. If it ever gets to the point that I have to sit behind this computer and do nothing but make money. I freakin' quit. I don't care how much money it is!

 

[seanuhthin]

I know that may sound strange, and maybe even a little snobbish, but it was not the intent. My point is we about have all the business we can do at this stage. While some businesses want to grow large, we don't! The larger we get the more we will lose that face-to-face interaction with the customer, simply due to there only being so many hours in a day (not to mention our survival related business). RAT has never been about knives. Knives are a consequence of what we do. To be real honest, this business has grown a lot faster than we ever wanted. We are even talking about slowing it down and maybe limiting how much we do every year since we don't want to lose that personal, hands-on interaction or the philosophy that brought us to the point we are at. If it ever quits being fun we will quit! I know it may sound strange wanting to slow business down but our company is nothing like any other knife or gear company out there. Customer and no-bullshit product come first. Sales and profits come second. We don't answer to a board of directors and we have zero debt so we can concentrate on actually getting out in the wilds and making new stuff instead of worrying about this month's sales numbers. We run ads in the magazines mainly to draw more attention to our survival schools. Again, RAT is fun for us. It allows us to get out in the jungles and woods and learn and teach skills. That's what we do. If it ever gets to the point that I have to sit behind this computer and do nothing but make money. I freakin' quit. I don't care how much money it is!

This is why I think I am loving the company so much. For the simple fact that the main people involved in RAT aren't to busy worrying about profits, to take some time to interact with people in the forums. Please don't change, because you are right, this does make you very different from other companies.

 

[MikePerrin]

"If it ever quits being fun we will quit!"

Years ago....many years..... Jeff and I made that pact in anything we get involved in. When our livelyhood, passtimes, hobbies or any interest we are drawn to be active in ceases to be fun we stop. Life is way too short for my liking and I will not spend it doing something I don't like. We absolutley enjoy the outdoors, survival training and knives and ...well there are a few other things, but you get the drift. Sometimes it is a bit irritating but it is also a challenge. As long as the challenge is there we are in it.

 

[R.A.T.]

Mike and I are dead serious about our customer and our product, but refuse to take the rest of it serious. I think this whole industry is chock full of bullshit and hype and I tell everyone I know this, including industry leaders. We go to shows to see our customers, not because we want to be in the inner cliques of the "industry." As far as I'm concerned we simply design and sell tools. The only folks important to us are those who buy our product and those who trust us with the information they receive from us.

 

[seanuhthin]

In my marketing class right now we are on the subject of ethics. I know, not really related to the topic, but one of the things we talked about was what a company should ask itself before marketing a product. "Would I feed this to my children?" "Would I go buy this, and would it satisfy my needs?" When I saw your post about how RAT is not solely about knives, and more on the actual adventure part, it reminded me of how you people experience what it is like in the wilderness, so you make your products to what you would want in that situation. That gives you an extreme advantage.

 

[R.A.T.]

In my marketing class right now we are on the subject of ethics. I know, not really related to the topic, but one of the things we talked about was what a company should ask itself before marketing a product. "Would I feed this to my children?" "Would I go buy this, and would it satisfy my needs?" When I saw your post about how RAT is not solely about knives, and more on the actual adventure part, it reminded me of how you people experience what it is like in the wilderness, so you make your products to what you would want in that situation. That gives you an extreme advantage.

Any other company could capitalize on that same "advantage" by having designers spend a lot of time in the field, plus LISTEN TO THEIR CUSTOMERS via forums such as this or other interactive methods. The problem with most knife / gear companies is they have people sitting at desks thinking up things that they think should appeal to users. Bullshit. Most of what's being designed nowadays has the "cool factor" instead of the "using factor". IMO, a knife manufacturer should be a user first and a maker second. Sadly, it's the other way around in most cases.

A gentleman from a well-known knife company told me something one day. He said that he was talking to another knife company and they had decided that the problem with the knife industry is there are too many people getting into it and selling knives. He stated that "there are even designers now having their stuff made and these designers have never even made a knife themselves." I suppose he was talking about us. My answer to this is simple: 1) There are NOT ENOUGH manufacturers and new blood in this industry and 2) If this person would actually hire designers with real-world experience first and makers second, he would be light years ahead of the game. The end user is getting tired of bullshit and hype. At least the end user that counts is

 

[seanuhthin]

Simplicity is my "Cool Factor". Just so that I understand what you mean, you are implying that people should stop overlooking the basic needs of a knife and just concentrate on what is needed first, and then if necessary, add in the personal touch later? or maybe just that sheeple without experience most likely should not be designing knives...? Lol I am in high school and really I am quite new to this whole "business philosophy" thing. I am still trying to get over why seniors are always sitting in front of my locker talking while I am trying to get stuff. What is the secret behind this!!???

 

[Tomso]

Customer and no-bullshit product come first. Sales and profits come second.

Many companies say exactly the same thing, but RAT cutlery is the only one i actually trust when they say it. That is what makes RAT better compared to others...way better. Plus Mike and Jeff are two very cool people. And funny...that helps too.

 

[R.A.T.]

..and we have pretty women in our trade show booths!

 

[seanuhthin]

That sure helps! Nutnfancy agrees as well

 

[Murphyslaw]

Our knives are really no better than any other company's. It's all just personal preference. We make knives that work. Nothing pretty about our stuff, and no bullshit when it comes to our knives or philosophy. We're a simple company that refuses to lie or exaggerate our product to get more customers. To be honest, we're really not looking for more customers or dealers. Knives are a means to an end for us. We are all about survival in the wilds and in remote locations. Our knives work ok for that but 10 dollar machetes work better for most locales.

Jeff

I've been lurking for a while on this subforum...

Man, with an ethos like that, how can I not buy a few!!! I'm liking the RC-4 and the Izula...

BTW, while on our honeymoon in Belize, our guide on the mainland carried a knock-off SAK, and when appropriate a machete. And this was a guy that since the age of 7 lived on his own in the jungle/woods, fending for himself. Most locals there carried likewise.

 

[R.A.T.]

We don't ever say we are better than another knife company, but we will say that we have the best looking trade show girls of any knife company, and you can't hurt their feelings by flirting with them!

 

[Fletcher Knives]

We don't ever say we are better than another knife company, but we will say that we have the best looking trade show girls of any knife company, and you can't hurt their feelings by flirting with them!

Yep. Definitely fun to look at. They need to watch out though. I think Sarah is sweet on one of them.

 

[Brad "the butcher"]

that picture awhile back of the well seasoned rc-3 that one of their jungle guides refused to part with proves a little rust has nothing to do with performance.

IF SOMEONE CAN POST IT AGAIN...... A PICTURE SAYS A THOUSAND WORDS!!!

Great usable blade design, best drop points I own and nobody gives a better sheath for the pricepoint.
RC-4 in orange g-10 has seen a lot of use in a year and a half.

 

[Brad "the butcher"]

From what I read the RC-4 is a great all-around knife, however is on the smaller side for survival. Don't get me wrong, it still would be great. My first will most likely be the RC-4, no reason, I just think it is a convenient size. Not too small, not too large, in my opinion a knife doesn't need to have a 14 inch blade to kill a bear, especially if you know what you are doing and you make some well placed... well... Stabs? Slashes? Any ways, unless you have a particular need for a larger size, say an Rc-5 and up, this should be great. Just my piece of mind! :thumbup: I don't own the knife but that doesn't mean i can't lay out the facts?
Just My mini review!!!!

Don't want to come down on you but how did you come to the opinion that a 4.5 in knife would be effective with well placed shots on a bear??
I have chased, bled and processed thousands of pigs (200 an hour for 14 years), some in the 400lb range similar to a black bear.

I would consider myself to have a leg up on most in knife combat on a large animal but I would kiss my a@@ goodbye with a bear on me with less than 6 inches.

With the hide, muscle and fat you need some extra length and counting on getting the perfect shot to the arteries with 400lb+ of fury is a long shot.
You would be stabbing and flailing in justified panic.

I have been knocked to the ground by a boar using a plywood shield, cattle prod and fiberglass cane to get it out of the pen to slaughter and it was a 45 second to 1min fight for life you cannot fathom unless you have tasted that level of ferocity. No cuts(shield good)but a knee that swelled double, and my left arm holding the sheild was battered and sore. Two weeks of compo before walking properly.
Someone did not latch the gate and I was walking down the chute to the pens, turned the corner and he was 10ft away loose and charged me.
After I convinced him with cane and prod back to the pen, shot him and we had to drag him up with a chain and winch, no way was anyone messing with him again.

If you ramped up to the rc-6 that would be an acceptable solution for bear/hog defense with a 6.5 in sturdy blade.

Just my opinion but a somewhat informed one, my adrenaline is flowing just retyping and reliving the event. This is my "I have seen the elephant moment"

Sorry for the hijack, my rc-4 is a great knife and I carry it a lot. That being said my rc-6 or my trailmaster(9.5in) is strapped to me if I am crashing bush or clearing trees on my 10 acres in the Caribou, black bear sign all over my ridge and grizzlies are around.

Regards everyone!

 

[Cpl Punishment]

This will probably be all over the place, but. . .

Jeff, I love your business model. I wish you'd write a business book. Pardonex mon francais, but the BULLSHIT taught in many business schools and being practiced today has brought many a good company to its knees. I've worked for and left two companies now that were great when I started out. They really cared for the customer and catered to the customer's needs. Then they grew and got the taste of money on their tongues. All of a sudden it became a game to see how many benefits they could take from the employees, how far back they could take the quality of the product without hurting sales too much, and basically saving every penny at all costs. Both companies went from balls-to-the-wall 6 and 7 days a week to practically nothing in a matter of a few months. All because of greed, and in the case of these two, trying to run a small company based on the misunderstanding of a business model meant for large companies some butt crack with a BS in business shoved down our throats.

Having people who know, and are active, in the activities related to the industry they are in is critical these days, IMO, as is keeping up with the chatter on internet boards.
Another maker that fulfills these characteristics is Bark River. Say what you want about Mike Stewart, but even his detractors admit he knows knives. And after a bit of discussions on that other knife forum, you often see a new offering from BRKT, even if it's just a limited run at first. Not unlike RAT Cutlery. The idea is good, and it works.

 

[Horn Dog]

..and we have pretty women in our trade show booths!

That's the main thing. The knives seem to work pretty well, too.

 

[stripymccatpuss]

I have read what R.A.T has posted , in this thread , SO glad I ordered an Rc6 ( IT's Arrived , pics to follow )

That attitude regarding the ethos behind the company, ( Knives being a secondary consideration ).with regard to what you DO...

Feck me this is a good place to learn !

 

[Horn Dog]

Any other company could capitalize on that same "advantage" by having designers spend a lot of time in the field, plus LISTEN TO THEIR CUSTOMERS via forums such as this or other interactive methods. The problem with most knife / gear companies is they have people sitting at desks thinking up things that they think should appeal to users. Bullshit. Most of what's being designed nowadays has the "cool factor" instead of the "using factor". IMO, a knife manufacturer should be a user first and a maker second. Sadly, it's the other way around in most cases.

A gentleman from a well-known knife company told me something one day. He said that he was talking to another knife company and they had decided that the problem with the knife industry is there are too many people getting into it and selling knives. He stated that "there are even designers now having their stuff made and these designers have never even made a knife themselves." I suppose he was talking about us. My answer to this is simple: 1) There are NOT ENOUGH manufacturers and new blood in this industry and 2) If this person would actually hire designers with real-world experience first and makers second, he would be light years ahead of the game. The end user is getting tired of bullshit and hype. At least the end user that counts is

I know of a knife manufacturer who lets folks on the Wilderness and Survival Skills forum review and test out his knives. And several knife makers do it too. It's nice to know how well things work in the outdoors. I am a collector, so I'll admit that I have bought knives that look great, but that I would not use in the bush. I like every single RAT knife I have. I have only tested them out on my property, but I am confident that they are useful tools in the woods and swamps where I sometimes go. One thing about RC knives is that they all have a tactical or military look to them. Some users might prefer a more civilian appearance. Under the paint and the micarta, RC knives are simple basic knives in proven cutlery steel. They are not unlike knives that have been in use for centuries by trappers, hunters, and other outdoorsmen.