What is the most cost effective "premium" steel?

i don't believe it. there's vg-10 there but no zdp 189. zdp folders by spydey cost between $42 and $130. i think that's as cost-effective as you can get. and zdp 189 gives you just what you're looking for in a premium steel: incredible sharpness and edge retention.
 
AXwFS0OIUDoE said:
I have been looking around and haven't found a 6 inch fixed blade made with one of these steels that fits the budget (other than the Master Hunter 3V). If you know of any, please let me know.


I found [Link removed] and this one. They are a bit small for me but they are within the budget and they seem good. Do you have any experience with them?
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Links to live eBay auctions are not allowed.
Links to dealers who have BF dealer memberships are OK. There is a link to a list of such dealers in my signature line.
 
I'll argue S30v.

Not because I'm in love with it.
That's just what the industry is set up to mass produce to keep the price lower then others. Its just popular.

its available in numerous knives for around $100 to $150 and has noticble performance over vg10, 154cm in edge retention.

3v has less edge retention but doesn't have micro chip issues because it incredibly tough.

The Cold Steel Master Hunter is ground breaking because its driving the cost down on the most premier fixed blade steel for toughness.

It's has a nice distal taper with a fine tip for slicing, carving and skining game with 3V to prevent chipping with bone contact.

Might be too slim for abusive use.

It's too soon for 3V to be the most cost effective. Most options are well into $200.
 
3v is a great choice :).

Personally I find that coatings are of little value, so if that is harder to find, I wouldn't bother too much about it. Use wears most coatings over time, and find that typically I like the blades performance more without it (less friction when cutting). And most coatings exist to help prevent corrosion, which 3v doesn't really have a problem with anyway. Might be easier to find a knife if the coating isn't as much of a "requirement" is all I'm saying. Worth some thought perhaps.

Good luck on the search :).
 
Looking at your uses I see cutting wood as one of the things you plan on doing, are we talking about batoning the blade to cut the wood? How are you going about this? Just wondering so we know how much abuse this knife will see.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
Ambush Knives Alpha is probably the closest I can think of. Good luck!
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This looks like a perfect knife for me but it is super expensive at more than $250 and also not sold in many stores.
I'm so tempted to get it but I want to save money so I will keep looking for something that fits the budget.
 
3V is by far the most perfect steel in my opinion.

Its hold an edge better than S30V, tougher than most carbon steel while have acceptable rust resistance.
 
DeadboxHero said:
I'll argue S30v.

Not because I'm in love with it.
That's just what the industry is set up to mass produce to keep the price lower then others. Its just popular.

its available in numerous knives for around $100 to $150 and has noticble performance over vg10, 154cm in edge retention.

3v has less edge retention but doesn't have micro chip issues because it incredibly tough.

The Cold Steel Master Hunter is ground breaking because its driving the cost down on the most premier fixed blade steel for toughness.

It's has a nice distal taper with a fine tip for slicing, carving and skining game with 3V to prevent chipping with bone contact.

Might be too slim for abusive use.

It's too soon for 3V to be the most cost effective. Most options are well into $200.
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S30V is nice and somewhat more affordable than the other premium steels (at the cost of less hardness and wear resistance) but I can't find many large fixed blades (5-6 inch) made of it. Found some Benchmades but they are quite small so my options are limited.

I have a few problems with the CS Master Hunter 3V. It is a bit small, I don't like the handle and it is extremely thin and I have read reviews and seen pictures of it chipping.
Chipping is a huge problem for me because it basically renders the knife useless. I am willing to spend some extra money to get a 3V knife that is thicker, larger and has a better handle like Micarta or G10.

Right now, it looks like these 3 knives are the only 3V knives that satisfy my demands and they are pretty expensive:
  • Cold Steel Warcraft Tanto 3V (this is thick, big, DLC coated and has a Micarta handle but it is a Tanto)
  • Ambush Knives Alpha 3V
  • Bark River Fox River 3V Recurve

I am thinking about waiting a little longer until 3V becomes more popular and affordable but I am not sure if I can do it.
May be I should get a cheap $30 knife until I find what I am looking for.
 
shqxk said:
3V is by far the most perfect steel in my opinion.

Its hold an edge better than S30V, tougher than most carbon steel while have acceptable rust resistance.
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I think the best steel that money can buy, theoretically, is S110V. It is basically S90V but with better corrosion resistance.
But you can get comparable quality with 3V at a much lower cost.

I saw a few abuse videos on YouTube of 3V and it is honestly very impressive. Tougher than anything I have seen (I am not very experienced though).
The great thing about it is that it is somewhat affordable. I don't think you can get better quality for the price.

From my research yesterday, I found out that there are basically 4 categories to measure how good a steel is:
  1. wear resistance/edge retention
  2. hardness/toughness
  3. corrosion resistance
  4. cost
3V excels at 1 and 2. It is very good at 3 and with little care this is not a problem at all. It is relatively good at 4, given what you get for the money and hopefully it gets cheaper as it becomes more popular.
 
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Bob6794 said:
Looking at your uses I see cutting wood as one of the things you plan on doing, are we talking about batoning the blade to cut the wood? How are you going about this? Just wondering so we know how much abuse this knife will see.
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I will not be batoning all day and batoning will not be a primary use for the knife but in the case that I need to baton something, it will be nice to have a blade that will not break.
 
ocnLogan said:
3v is a great choice :).

Personally I find that coatings are of little value, so if that is harder to find, I wouldn't bother too much about it. Use wears most coatings over time, and find that typically I like the blades performance more without it (less friction when cutting). And most coatings exist to help prevent corrosion, which 3v doesn't really have a problem with anyway. Might be easier to find a knife if the coating isn't as much of a "requirement" is all I'm saying. Worth some thought perhaps.

Good luck on the search :).
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Yes, sure. As I said, I am willing to make compromises because if I want the absolute perfect knife, then I will need to go well beyond $200 and that is something I can't do.
The only coated 3V knife that is within my budget is the CS Warcraft Tanto 3V. It is a very nice knife for the price but it is a tanto.
If cold steel releases a drop point version of this knife that is the same size (6-7 inch), has same Micarta handle and costs the same, then that will be amazing.

Right now, I think the Bark River Fox River 3V Recurve knives are almost perfect for me, but the blade is a bit small at 4inch.
 
AXwFS0OIUDoE said:
This looks like a perfect knife for me but it is super expensive at more than $250 and also not sold in many stores.
I'm so tempted to get it but I want to save money so I will keep looking for something that fits the budget.
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If you look for the plain micarta handle options you can find it for about $225. Still above budget, but I don't know any 3V blades in that size range that are less expensive. Check out knivesshipfree.com and look for the matte micarta handle option.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
If you look for the plain micarta handle options you can find it for about $225. Still above budget, but I don't know any 3V blades in that size range that are less expensive. Check out knivesshipfree.com and look for the matte micarta handle option.
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I just found out that Ambush Alpha is made by Bark River.
Bark River has a few knives like the Fox River and Bravo 1 (both 3V) that are within my budget but they have shorter blade lengths at 4 and 4.25 inch respectively.
I am now thinking about sacrificing blade length to reduce cost.
 
You will have to find the handle material that fits better into your budget. As Moniker said, check out the canvas micarta handles. They start at $225 and then go up from there depending on materials. The two largest dealers are us and KSF. Both stores have them in stock and ready to ship, no waiting or pre-orders needed.
 
Oh, and as a plug, both DLT and knivesshipfree are very active on these forums, have excellent customer service and a great selection. I've dealt with both and have been very happy. If you're going for Ambush or Bark River I would go through one or the other.
 
AXwFS0OIUDoE said:
I think the best steel that money can buy, theoretically, is S110V. It is basically S90V but with better corrosion resistance.
But you can get comparable quality with 3V at a much lower cost.

I saw a few abuse videos on YouTube of 3V and it is honestly very impressive. Tougher than anything I have seen (I am not very experienced though).
The great thing about it is that it is somewhat affordable. I don't think you can get better quality for the price.

From my research yesterday, I found out that there are basically 4 categories to measure how good a steel is:
  1. wear resistance/edge retention
  2. hardness/toughness
  3. corrosion resistance
  4. cost
3V excels at 1 and 2. It is very good at 3 and with little care this is not a problem at all. It is relatively good at 4, given what you get for the money and hopefully it get cheaper at it becomes more popular.
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Wear resistance and edge retention are not the same thing, edge retention is a combination of wear resistance, toughness, and corrosion resistance. Hardness and toughness are also not the same thing and are usually opposites. For example 3v has twice the toughness at 58rc as it does at 62rc. I hope I haven't made things even more confusing:D. Another company that makes 3v knives in your budget is Survive! Knives.
 
fsatsil said:
Wear resistance and edge retention are not the same thing, edge retention is a combination of wear resistance, toughness, and corrosion resistance. Hardness and toughness are also not the same thing and are usually opposites. For example 3v has twice the toughness at 58rc as it does at 62rc. I hope I haven't made things even more confusing:D. Another company that makes 3v knives in your budget is Survive! Knives.
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Oh man, every time I think I learnt something it turns out there are a million more things to learn haha It has been a great and fun experience learning about steels though.
So the properties should be
  • wear resistance
  • toughness
  • hardness
  • corrosion resistance
  • edge retention
  • cost
 
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shqxk said:
3V is by far the most perfect steel in my opinion.
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I shy away from using the word "perfect"... but CPM-3V is definitely a very well-balanced, high-performance alloy. If I could only make and use knives large or small, thick or thin out of one steel for the rest of my life, it would be 3V.

AXwFS0OIUDoE said:
I am thinking about waiting a little longer until 3V becomes more popular and affordable but I am not sure if I can do it.
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I wouldn't hold my breath waiting on that. Regardless of popularity, 3V's fairly costly to begin with, and fairly difficult to machine and heat-treat. The fact that we're seeing good production knives in 3V for $150-225 is honestly pretty (pleasantly) surprising... I'd say snag one now, before prices almost inevitably go up, not down.
 
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