What is the percentage of knives are for show and for use?

AVigil

AVigil

Adam Vigil working the grind
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Lot of beautiful knives being made with the best heat treatment and hardware that will never cut more then a piece of paper or see the light of day. I personally have some beautiful knives from Rick Browne, Kieth Coleman, Barry Dawson, Ted Dowell and Chubby Hueske that are kept in a display case or a safe.

I also have several from less known makers that have been used, abuse and lost over the years as well.

I was wondering what percentage of knives do some of you guys make that are just for show vs. use?
 
I think that the amount of safe queens increases exponentially with an increase of price. If it costs 50 bucks, why not beat the crap out of it. if it costs 1500, then it becomes a revered object, at least for me ;).
Besides, you lose something the first time that you scratch it up. it goes from being Nick Wheeler perfect to being almost Nick Wheeler perfect, and that is a gap that can only be crossed once.
 
I think a lot of it depends on the maker also. If you make a lot of kitchen knives and skinners vs someone who makes works of art then that will make a difference.
 
I have noticed that some makers have an obvious attitude about knives that are made for collectors, as opposed to users. I will also admit that there has been some (albeit less) of the reverse sentiment expressed by some about knives made strictly to function with no regard to form.

Most of the makers I pay attention to in this forum are somewhere between the two extremes. They want to make knives that serve a purpose, but are attractive and include nice materials.

At the end of the day, however, it's up to a customer to determine what use a knife is put to. Some folks buy scads of the $50 knives and dump them unceremoniously into a drawer, maybe to be used, maybe to rust. Others buy large numbers of more expensive knives and cycle through them like fashion accessories, wearing the knife that best compliments their outfit or mood.

We can't control what customers do with the products we sell them. And while some (like Steve) may have it in their mind that a certain price point is high, others with more resources would think nothing of scratching up a $500 knife that was designed to be used.

Personally, I think we as makers should abandon the notion that there is a dividing wall between those that make utilitarian knives and those that make pretty knives. We're all making knives, and none of us can actually control how (or whether) they get used.
 
Greg,

What I am asking is about the maker not the buyer.

For example Bob Loveless made his knives to be used as does the Randall Shop. Those knives have become collectible but really were initially made to be used.

Ed Henry made bowies that never were meant to be used and a maker like Buster Warenski makes pieces solely to look at and belong in a museum.

As a maker how often does one make a knife that is meant for display VS. use?

What the buyer does with it is their choice.
 
Well, I'm a long way still from being able to make something perfect enough to deserve to be put behind glass, but I would prefer that any knife I make get used. I look at it as a craft rather than an art. I may change my tune at some point, and I see nothing wrong with either aspect of knife making.
 
All of my knives are made with the intent that they will be used.

I can't control what someone does once they purchase the knife, but I hope they put it to work.
 
The direct answer.... 100% of my knives are made to be users.

Truthfully, I have made a few knives that I would hope never get use beyond slicing paper and shaving arm hair. Not that they are incapable but because I invested a lot of time to make them look a certain way. It might be a patina that turned out unexpectedly well or some other delicate feature that is an eye-catcher. I have years/decades ahead of me before I can put out pieces the likes of a few makers already mentioned, so my main selling feature is their ability to take a beating. And I try to make them in a way that folks aren't afraid to use them.

Some people will say it isn't a knife if it isn't functional. I have seen some great looking artistic expressions that clearly were not intended for use and have no problem with it. I do think that there has to be a distinct "leap" from functional to decoration only blades. If your knife lacks the structural integrity to be a user, it shouldn't look like one.

Rick
 
They are all made to be users, pretty users at that. They could be for show, but that would mean missing out its full potential and I will leave that choice up to the customer to decide.
 
As an amateur collector I don't have much occasion to use fixed blade knives but I like to collect them, so almost all of the ones in my collection are intended for show. However I want them to be made the same as if I was going to use them, anything less and I would think they were fake and I would not respect them. And they will last well beyond my possession of them, the next owner might choose to use them. I have selected and set aside a couple of my custom knives to actually use for hunting if the occasion ever comes up.

OTOH I do carry a folding knife every day so all of my folding knives are users.
 
AVigil said:
As a maker how often does one make a knife that is meant for display VS. use?
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The point I was making is that this is an artificial question. I've made one knife that was clearly not intended to be used as a knife (the caduceus knife), but it served another purpose... not as a "display" piece, but as a cathartic experience pertaining to my father's prostate cancer.

We make knives. Some of us spend more time working on the aesthetics than other, but that doesn't mean they are "meant for display". They are meant to be knives. This articifial boundary between "display" versus "use" is really pointless and divisive.
 
tryppyr said:
This articifial boundary between "display" versus "use" is really pointless and divisive.
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No its not.

I know many makers that make a piece for display and pieces for use. It is not an artificial boundary or divisive at all for some makers. For others it might be but that is about them and not others.

The question is an easy one. Some makers majority of knives are for use and others are for display. My question was asked to see if makers here make most of their knives for display or use, or is it 50-50?

Really not a hard question at all.

Look at Bob Dozier. He is very famous and makes far more knifes for daily use then art pieces. Contrast that to Virgil England whose work is amazing and meant to be looked at and admired then use to cut rope.

The question is a common one and really should not to ruffle anyone's feathers
 
Like it has been stated already, I am not yet at a show piece level. All knives that I produce are for use. My father has one of my first knives and refuses to use it because it was an early knife, even though it is not pretty at all. So like Rick said, 100% of my knives are made to be used.
 
Big Chris said:
Like it has been stated already, I am not yet at a show piece level. All knives that I produce are for use. My father has one of my first knives and refuses to use it because it was an early knife, even though it is not pretty at all. So like Rick said, 100% of my knives are made to be used.
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Bob Loveless lived about 15 minutes away from me. When I talked to him he made no qualms about the majority of his knives were made to be used, and he was always amazed at the status his knives achieved at being collectible. He made some museum quality pieces but the majority of his work was for daily use.

Of course the price became so high they were not used, but that was not Bob's intention when making them. He was a very serious guy when it came to making the best knife possible for heavy use.
 
Allow me to make another pass at explaining...

I have landed on daggers as a preferred form. I like the geometry of them and the fact that they require attention on all sides. Daggers are not principally used for cutting boxes or carving up game. They were oringally designed as weapons to be used by combatants. I've noticed Rick sells a Tribal Dagger, so I'm not the only one that makes them.

I can assure you I do not make daggers that I intend to be used in committing murders. Nor do I anticipate that my daggers will be shipped to a war zone and used by soldiers. I assume the same applies to Rick. Does the fact tha we don't want them used to kill people mean they are for display only?

Yes, the daggers CAN be used to open boxes or letters. So if someone takes a dagger from Rick or myself and uses it as a letter opener, dies that mean we've made and sold a knife to be used or displayed? No, it means we made a knife and someone had a use for it.

Say the dagger has an ivory handle and a damascus blade and is shipped in a presentation case as a gift. Does any of that stop it from being used to open letters (or enemies)?

We make knives. Very few of us want our knives to be used in the commission of crimes, but some of them might be used that way. I've only seen one maker on this forum that seemed to target his knives at that usage. If someone takes a display knife and kills their family with it, does that mean the knife was made to be a murder weapon?

Likewise, I don't see any makers that do things intentionally to make a knife unusable. Nobody I've seen yet intentionally left their blade annealed so it would not hold an edge (to prevent it being used). They make a knife that CAN be used, and some make it so well it doesn't get used. Few make knives that are not targeted for some use.

That's why I say the boundary is artificial and divisive. People here talk about "safe queens". It's the customer, not the maker, that turns a quality knife into a "safe queen". I daresay very few would claim "I make knives strictly to be safe queens". I haven't seen anyone say that yet. Rick has come as close as anyone to that by admitting he made some that he HOPED didn't get used... but made them with the intention that the could be used.

- Greg
 
Greg you really went off the reservation on that one. :)

That is not anywhere near what I was asking about.

Yes there are makers who make cutlery with the intention of being a work of art and sitting behind glass and there are makers who solely make knives to be used. Then there are others who make both.

The question was "what percentage of knives do some of you guys make that are just for show vs. use?

If the answer is 100% to be used then that is the answer. We can leave the customers intention completely out of it.
 
Unless they wind up in the scrap pile, they all get used in “one way or another“. Most of them get used to cut with. Some don’t. They all have the potential to serve more than one purpose.

The intention of the maker has little to do with what knives actually get used for, but they all get used,… somehow.

I've never made a "show only" knife,... that couldn't poke an eye out. The question is, are those "knives" or knife shaped eye pokers?

I’m going with 100%.

Since show is also a use, I can kind of see what Greg means...
 
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AVigil said:
Greg you really went off the reservation on that one. :)
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The witness is instructed to confine his answer to a percentage.

Greg,

One thing I would add to your thoughts. The whole knife making oeurve is a blue-color craft. No matter how many knives are made for display only, decorum dictates that they were all made for use.

Greg
 
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