What is the sharpest knife within these specific parameters

[radioshaq]

Here's another 'what is the sharpest knife' thread for the night owls, but this one is very specific. Here are my conditions

What is the sharpest knife that fulfills the following conditions
(editing for further clarifying the conditions)
Company : Spyderco
Geometry : Any Spyderco model. Factory bevel. It can be sharpened, but cannot be reground to a different angle.
Steel : Any that Spyderco puts in the said models (Sprint or general runs)
Task : Hair whittling / Hair tree toping. Lets say to use for shaving beard (though this might not be a practical task for a knife)
Maintenance : Has to be possible to maintain with Sharpmaker medium and fine stones. No more than 10 mins for maintenance - i.e. as per Sharpmaker's instructions on maintaining an edge with 20 strokes per side starting with a) edge of medium b) flat side of medium c) edge of fine d) flat side of fine.

 

[dkb45]

Sharpness out of the box is based on many factors, how tired the worker is, how on it they are that day, the alignment of the stars... If you resharpen the knife, you will get a much better edge than almost any knife out of the box.

That said, you can find a handful of good Spyderco knives, once you give us some basic specs, like desired size and purpose.

 

[JR88FAN]

I will try to keep this super civil....

First, this makes zero sense. Just want to make that really clear.....

1: You would like to buy a Spyderco that whittles hair out of the box, and which one does that?!?!?!

2: You would like to be able to maintain this Spyderco on the SM, and it should take less then 10 minutes?!?!?!?!

OK...

1: Buy any Spyderco with VG-10, it's an easy steel to get REALLY sharp, but you will have to do that work yourself.

2: The time involved in getting an edge "sharp" depends on two main things:

How good are you at sharpening?

What's the condition of the edge?

You can figure out the time it will take from there....
The type of steel is not a big factor, it usually falls under the category of "how good are you at sharpening"

 

[bodog]

There's no way to know exactly how sharp a knife will come out of the box. Learn how to sharpen and buy whatever knife you like and make it as sharp as you want. That's the only way to do it. No one can say "buy a manix, it comes sharper from the factory than a pingo."

As far as which ones can be maintained by a sharpmaker, hell, William Wallace could've maintained his long sword on a sharpmaker if he had one and wanted to. It's metal rubbing against an abrasive surface. Any abrasive surface that's harder than the steel will sharpen it.

And you can make any knife capable of being sharpened in under 10 minutes. But it depends on whether there are rolls or dents in the edge or whether you wore the edge down so much that the apex is really flat. Throw a 15 degree edge bevel on a knife with 3 degree primary bevel, set the sharpmaker up for 20 degrees per side, and you can maintain the edge through light use with a couple of strokes per day, that takes all of 1 or 2 minutes.

 

[radioshaq]

whoops - sorry maybe I don't know the terminologies well yet - still fairly new here. and thanks for keeping it civil and the great advise.

some clarifications on my initial question:

1) When I said 'Factory Bevel' - i meant the angle of the blade (not Factory Edge), i.e. without regrinding the factory bevel to a different angle. i didn't mean it could not be sharpened
2) Maintenance - i meant I would like to be able to maintain the blade's sharpness by following Sal's instruction for the Sharpmaker which is about 20 strokes per side starting with a) edge of medium b) flat side of medium c) edge of fine d) flat side of fine.. i thought it didn't take more than 10 minutes to do that - but i haven't timed myself so i could be wrong, or i might not be doing it correctly (though i did get my centofante 3 to be quite sharp!)
3) Task - ok, lets say i wanted to use it for shaving. i know this might not be a standard task - but this is what i would like to know : basically a spyderco knife without regrinding to a different angle, maintained on a sharpmaker that i could use for shaving.

 

[radioshaq]

Throw a 15 degree edge bevel on a knife with 3 degree primary bevel, set the sharpmaker up for 20 degrees per side, and you can maintain the edge through light use with a couple of strokes per day, that takes all of 1 or 2 minutes.

thanks! this is very helpful. I get the 15 degree back bevel, and the 20 degree edge bevel. I didn't quite get the '3 degree primary bevel'.. and is this something that the sharpmaker can do?

 

[bodog]

I can make any of my knives sharp enough to shave my face regardless of how thick they are. Hair is pretty easy to cut. You can use a dull razor to shave if you really want to. If you don't mind I'd like to posit what you may be thinking? A thin blade can cut longer as you're not having to mash a thick blade through something. If you're cutting something somewhat soft like hair and nothing else the apex will on a very small scale bend, roll, fracture and just plain wear down. The harder the stuff you cut and the harder you cut stuff, the damage will start magnifying until you are able to see the damage with your naked eye.

The blade profiles can help or hurt depending on what you normally cut. If you're cutting thick rubber or plastic a hollow grind will wedge in the material making it hard to push through where a full flat grind like spyderco normally uses will usually be better with that material. But with a full flat grind the more you sharpen it the thicker the edge gets until you need to reprofile the entire blade the get the edge thin enough to cut well again. A hollow grind leaves a thicker spine where you can sharpen a lot and the edge won't get very much thicker with repeated sharpening until the blade is almost completely worn out. That could be a lifetime. Hollow grinds can be great if you're only usually cutting thin material without a lot of twisting. That'd probably be the easiest to maintain with a sharpmaker.

Conversely, you can get a knife thats fairly thin at the spine with minimal angles leading to the edge. That's basically a disposable razor profile except there's no angel from the spine to the edge bevel, but it's super thin with no ability to stop the blade from bending. That's why fillet knives are so thin, because they cut really well and need to bend a little.

There's more to it, a lot more, but it gives you an idea of where you want to start looking as far as grinds go. Either full flat with a really thin spine or a pretty radical hollow grind, if all you want to do is shave.

That leads to other considerations to. The way you hold a blade to shave your face is different than if you want to cut a steak sitting in front of you. And if you want to pierce a box or something then you want a pointed tip, but you don't really want a pointed tip on something close to your face because you don't want to prick your arteries. A surface nick is fine but you don't want to go deeper. A lot of spyderco knives are made to pierce really well.

So thinking about you wanting to shave with your knife, no problem with that, you want probably a wharncliff or sheep's foot blade with a really thin full flat or pretty deep hollow grind. I don't think spyderco has any deep hollow grinds so you'd want a thin full flat grind. That leads me to the rock lobster, pingo, or roadie based on what you say you want to do with the knife.

 

[bodog]

thanks! this is very helpful. I get the 15 degree back bevel, and the 20 degree edge bevel. I didn't quite get the '3 degree primary bevel'.. and is this something that the sharpmaker can do?

You CAN, but it'd take a long time. That's the main angle from the spine to the edge bevel.

 

[marcinek]

thanks! this is very helpful. I get the 15 degree back bevel, and the 20 degree edge bevel. I didn't quite get the '3 degree primary bevel'.. and is this something that the sharpmaker can do?

No. Do you own a Sharpmaker? Or have you used one?

Your questions aren't making much sense, and I suspect it's because you haven't used a Sharpmaker or sharpened any knives.

We all gotta start somewhere, and the best place for you to start is to buy a Sharpnaker and a Delica and go at it in the real world. They are both great tools, and doing that will answer your questions....or at leat allow you to ask questions that make sense .

Go to it! :thumbup:

 

[cricketdave]

Spyderco military is a good one for what your wanting sounds like, easy to sharpen and holds a edge very well. Pick up a DMT duo fold fine and course stone or add some diamond stones for the sharp maker if thats what you really want to use. Get a piece of leather and some metal polish for stropping the edge. Really you ought to learn to sharpen free hand.

 

[radioshaq]

No. Do you own a Sharpmaker? Or have you used one?

Your questions aren't making much sense, and I suspect it's because you haven't used a Sharpmaker or sharpened any knives.

We all gotta start somewhere, and the best place for you to start is to buy a Sharpnaker and a Delica and go at it in the real world. They are both great tools, and doing that will answer your questions....or at leat allow you to ask questions that make sense .

Go to it! :thumbup:

thanks for the advise - i did buy a sharpmaker and went through Sal's videos and tried to sharpen a few. but i guess i still have a lot of learning to do i know i pretty much destroyed the edge on my utilitac 2. but think did a fairly good job on the centofante 3 and a d2 composite leek.

 

[radioshaq]

Spyderco military is a good one for what your wanting sounds like, easy to sharpen and holds a edge very well. Pick up a DMT duo fold fine and course stone or add some diamond stones for the sharp maker if thats what you really want to use. Get a piece of leather and some metal polish for stropping the edge. Really you ought to learn to sharpen free hand.

thanks - i know eventually i will have to go freehand if i want to do anything serious. but starting with the sharpmaker to first get edgucated. i did get a used military off the exchange here - will start working on that after i feel more comfortable with the vg-10s.

 

[bodog]

thanks for the advise - i did buy a sharpmaker and went through Sal's videos and tried to sharpen a few. but i guess i still have a lot of learning to do i know i pretty much destroyed the edge on my utilitac 2. but think did a fairly good job on the centofante 3 and a d2 composite leek.

So whats the real question? Why can't you get the utilitac sharp with the sharpmaker? All kinds of guys can help you with that one. We just need to figure out what you're really asking and what the root of the problem really is.

 

[benchwarmer380]

thanks for the advise - i did buy a sharpmaker and went through Sal's videos and tried to sharpen a few. but i guess i still have a lot of learning to do i know i pretty much destroyed the edge on my utilitac 2. but think did a fairly good job on the centofante 3 and a d2 composite leek.

The instructions help but there is definitely a learning curve. My brother and I have each had a Sharp Maker for a while and he get can some hair popping edge while mine still come out mediocre at best. He has put more time into it and that shows.

Be sure to use the Sharpie trick. Put it on the edge/bevel so you can see where you're hitting it. Practice, practice, practice and then practice some more. As with everything.

 

[radioshaq]

Be sure to use the Sharpie trick. Put it on the edge/bevel so you can see where you're hitting it. Practice, practice, practice and then practice some more. As with everything.

yup! bought a sharpie for specifically this helped me quite a bit!

 

[marcinek]

thanks - i know eventually i will have to go freehand if i want to do anything serious. but starting with the sharpmaker to first get edgucated. i did get a used military off the exchange here - will start working on that after i feel more comfortable with the vg-10s.

You didn't destroy the Utilitac...you just probably started to put a new bevel on it at a different angle. It will take a while to establish that new angle, but it will happen. U til then, it won't be so great. Keep at it, those brown rods aren't very aggressive, so they don't go great forvestablk shing a new edge.

 

[Dean Crail]

thanks - i know eventually i will have to go freehand if i want to do anything serious. but starting with the sharpmaker to first get edgucated. i did get a used military off the exchange here - will start working on that after i feel more comfortable with the vg-10s.

Why freehand, most of the best sharpeners I know use the Wicked Edge system almost exclusively? Most bevels from spyderco are pretty good, my Manix 2 in CRUWEAR had a 20DPS bevel and it whittles hair just fine (after I spent an hour fixing the edge and putting a mirror on it), the CRUWEAR holds a really nice edge but it was one of the harder steels I have sharpened personally.

 

[radioshaq]

So whats the real question? Why can't you get the utilitac sharp with the sharpmaker? All kinds of guys can help you with that one. We just need to figure out what you're really asking and what the root of the problem really is.

haha - i guess the knife sharpening questions will be their own separate thread after i get the basics down and know what i don't know. this thread was more just a theoretical question on which spyderco model (which would define the blade geometry, bevel angles and steel) could be maintained using a sharpmaker medium and fine stone to beard shaving sharpness.

 

[radioshaq]

You didn't destroy the Utilitac...you just probably started to put a new bevel on it at a different angle. It will take a while to establish that new angle, but it will happen. U til then, it won't be so great. Keep at it, those brown rods aren't very aggressive, so they don't go great forvestablk shing a new edge.

this helps! i was starting to get turned off with aus8, even though i have read good things about it - especially after how much easier the vg10 was to get it back to hair popping.

 

[JR88FAN]

Sal makes it looks easy, and it is....when you've done it 1 million times.

The SM is not some magic sharpener where you just run your knives down the rods and they shave hair.

There is technique involved, and there are not too many knives that are 15 or 20DPS out of the box. Close maybe, but close will mean that you will be hitting the shoulder more then the edge....