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What is the ultimate blade steel for user knife?
- Thread starter wutitiz
- Start date
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2005
- Messages
- 1,991
folder??
VG10 or BG42
Fixed??
CPM 3v
VG10 or BG42
Fixed??
CPM 3v
The Bos-treated 420HC is a very good response that I hadn't thought of. The 420HC is the toughest commonly used stainless cutlery steel, so it may be the toughest you can get without sacrificing corrosion protection, unless you go to 420J2, which is a big step down in edge-holding. Bos apparently has done a lot of experimentation with different heat-treating methods on 420HC. It would be a good choice, especially for the fixed blade.
I have yet to buy one of the 'DiamondBlade' friction forged knives, but every indication so far is that it is for real, practical, and a definite leap forward for blade steel. As soon as they come out with model I like, I will be a buyer. That would be the material for my genie-made knives, both folder & fixed. A close second would be a Kershaw composite blade with zdp-189 edge & spine of something like 420J2, for toughness. According to a post from Thomas W. from Kershaw they will be doing exactly that in the not-too-distant future.
It occurred to me that even with all the purported super-steels out there, the cutting competitors still use stuff like 0-1 and 52100.
I have yet to buy one of the 'DiamondBlade' friction forged knives, but every indication so far is that it is for real, practical, and a definite leap forward for blade steel. As soon as they come out with model I like, I will be a buyer. That would be the material for my genie-made knives, both folder & fixed. A close second would be a Kershaw composite blade with zdp-189 edge & spine of something like 420J2, for toughness. According to a post from Thomas W. from Kershaw they will be doing exactly that in the not-too-distant future.
It occurred to me that even with all the purported super-steels out there, the cutting competitors still use stuff like 0-1 and 52100.
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2004
- Messages
- 12,957
Case CV steel, or if you want some good tough users something in the stainless AUS6 or 8 steel or anything from several companies using 420HC or even the 13C26 is a great user everyday steel that has proven itself to be worthy. My old time pref has always been the CV steel but I admit a bias since I grew up with it.
Speaking of CV steel though, I just bought a really great Case model they just came out with in 2003 that is the Case knife I always wanted. In fact in my 20s I wrote Case asking for just something like this and never heard a reply. When I found it on a shelf in Cabelas I was astounded to see it since it was almost exactly what I originally asked them to build.
I had to settle for the tru Sharp model from Cabelas to try it and I'm sure I paid a premium but I liked it so much I had to have it. I do carry and use it even if the steel is not quite my fave. Its still better than SAKs I have used and it seems to keep up with most of the stainless out there in similar priced knives so far but even still both tru Sharp and the SAK steels seem to be bottom line for me as to what I'll accept and both seem softer than a lot of the others I sharpen also..So if ease of sharpening is a plus you'll like these.
I was very excited to see the CA229 model 61265LCCV pattern available from Smokey Mountain Knifeworks the other day in their new catalog and I quickly ordered two of them in the CV steel since I was unaware that this was even out there. I believe they call the model the Mid Folding Hunter. Its the perfect size and shape,(4" closed) a great blade shape, one hand opening and closing and even has a very handy pocket clip that I might add is virtually invisible in the hand. Try it. You'll like it! I do. In fact I'm quite taken by it here lately. Its probably my all time favorite Case model now that I've had a chance to use it over the last few weeks. A one hand opening and closing slip joint with a lock and pocket clip and quality bone handles in several colors avaiable! Now thats the ticket folks! Anyway, I really like this model with the exception of the tip down carry but its growing on me again since I've carried them that way in my younger years. I do still keep trying to stick it on my pocket the wrong way but slowly old habits are breaking to carry this one.
STR
Speaking of CV steel though, I just bought a really great Case model they just came out with in 2003 that is the Case knife I always wanted. In fact in my 20s I wrote Case asking for just something like this and never heard a reply. When I found it on a shelf in Cabelas I was astounded to see it since it was almost exactly what I originally asked them to build.
I had to settle for the tru Sharp model from Cabelas to try it and I'm sure I paid a premium but I liked it so much I had to have it. I do carry and use it even if the steel is not quite my fave. Its still better than SAKs I have used and it seems to keep up with most of the stainless out there in similar priced knives so far but even still both tru Sharp and the SAK steels seem to be bottom line for me as to what I'll accept and both seem softer than a lot of the others I sharpen also..So if ease of sharpening is a plus you'll like these.
I was very excited to see the CA229 model 61265LCCV pattern available from Smokey Mountain Knifeworks the other day in their new catalog and I quickly ordered two of them in the CV steel since I was unaware that this was even out there. I believe they call the model the Mid Folding Hunter. Its the perfect size and shape,(4" closed) a great blade shape, one hand opening and closing and even has a very handy pocket clip that I might add is virtually invisible in the hand. Try it. You'll like it! I do. In fact I'm quite taken by it here lately. Its probably my all time favorite Case model now that I've had a chance to use it over the last few weeks. A one hand opening and closing slip joint with a lock and pocket clip and quality bone handles in several colors avaiable! Now thats the ticket folks! Anyway, I really like this model with the exception of the tip down carry but its growing on me again since I've carried them that way in my younger years. I do still keep trying to stick it on my pocket the wrong way but slowly old habits are breaking to carry this one.
STR
Theoretically, S30V should be the better steel. However, I have to be honest, I have been really impressed with BG-42 on every knife I've had with it, and I would place it on the same level as S30V as among the best steels you can use in a knife.
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- Aug 27, 2004
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Personally I feel BG42 is a better alloy than S30V but speaking of everyday user knives for the masses I don't think either of these steels are going to be looked at all that favorably.
I get a lot of feedback from every day people and have over the years also. It seems to me that most folks are initially impressed with both steels and others of that same level of hardness and performance, wear resistance and so on like D2. They love em at first when they are sharp. Its when they go to sharpen them after dulling them down that they suck big time for these guys and thats exactly what they tell me in feedback.
As an example of this when Thomas sent me two of the new Leeks to use I gave one Leek, the S30V one to my neighbor who is a real world non knife nut end liner user. I gave this to him to keep and he gave it back to me a month later dull as dull can be saying he bought him a Scallion at Wal Mart and was much happier with that because he can get that one sharp. Super steels are only great if you are properly versed in how to maintain them I think. You have to also realize that a lot of these good ole boys are still using the same ole style oil stone they had from way back figuring its all they'll ever need. Its occurred to me that until one of the super steels came along in their collection most of these folks never had much need for a diamond hone or need to ask someone else to sharpen their knives for them. Nothing frustrates someone more than having a knife you can't get sharp when you know you have done it before.
I must admit that the whole reason I even bought an Edge Pro was just because of these new steels out today because doing it by hand for more than one knife gets to be a long day at the hone and as most of you know and can attest to the SharpMaker good as it is for a good fresh bevel is not going to be much help for a complete new bevel at the right angle. It seems to me its only good for maintaining the edge until the bevel needs redone. That is where an Edge Pro or some other type accurate system comes into play. I know a lot of you guys think you can just zip it on the wheel and get it sharp. I can to but the bevel is not as accurate that way and its really risking the temper if you make one hesitation for too long while doing it. I rarely sharpen my knives on a machine driven wheel these days. The only exception is the kitchen knives and only because I do 20 at the same sitting.
STR
I get a lot of feedback from every day people and have over the years also. It seems to me that most folks are initially impressed with both steels and others of that same level of hardness and performance, wear resistance and so on like D2. They love em at first when they are sharp. Its when they go to sharpen them after dulling them down that they suck big time for these guys and thats exactly what they tell me in feedback.
As an example of this when Thomas sent me two of the new Leeks to use I gave one Leek, the S30V one to my neighbor who is a real world non knife nut end liner user. I gave this to him to keep and he gave it back to me a month later dull as dull can be saying he bought him a Scallion at Wal Mart and was much happier with that because he can get that one sharp. Super steels are only great if you are properly versed in how to maintain them I think. You have to also realize that a lot of these good ole boys are still using the same ole style oil stone they had from way back figuring its all they'll ever need. Its occurred to me that until one of the super steels came along in their collection most of these folks never had much need for a diamond hone or need to ask someone else to sharpen their knives for them. Nothing frustrates someone more than having a knife you can't get sharp when you know you have done it before.
I must admit that the whole reason I even bought an Edge Pro was just because of these new steels out today because doing it by hand for more than one knife gets to be a long day at the hone and as most of you know and can attest to the SharpMaker good as it is for a good fresh bevel is not going to be much help for a complete new bevel at the right angle. It seems to me its only good for maintaining the edge until the bevel needs redone. That is where an Edge Pro or some other type accurate system comes into play. I know a lot of you guys think you can just zip it on the wheel and get it sharp. I can to but the bevel is not as accurate that way and its really risking the temper if you make one hesitation for too long while doing it. I rarely sharpen my knives on a machine driven wheel these days. The only exception is the kitchen knives and only because I do 20 at the same sitting.
STR
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Deleted the post.
I am not an expert, but I think that BG-42 and S30V should be close, with the nod going to S30V S30V has more vanadium, which makes very hard carbides and thus greater wear resistance. S30V also has the advantage of the CPM process which ensures an even carbide distribution. BG-42 has more moly and also a higher recommended hardness (BG-42 at Rc 61-63, S30V at 57-59). I don't know this for a fact, but it wouldn't suprise me if BG is easier to sharpen due to having less vanadium, so could be better in practice, if not theory.
I am surprised at the lack of interest expressed in this thread for ZDP, friction-forged D2, S90V, etc. It appears that most people are happy with non-exotic steels that are proven, with I think at least one person even naming 1095 as his ultimate steel. For me, I am not. Maybe having used a couple zdp knives has whetted my wish for better & better blade steel.
I also concede STR's point that for a lot of us sharpening gear & ability is a weak link. I use a Spyderco sharpmaker and DMT diamond hones w/ DMT's 'Aligner' (angle guide similar to Lansky guide). Both work reasonably, but I am not really satisfied with either. I guess sharpening will always get short shrift. Nobody ever posts pics of their cool new sharpener, do they?
I am surprised at the lack of interest expressed in this thread for ZDP, friction-forged D2, S90V, etc. It appears that most people are happy with non-exotic steels that are proven, with I think at least one person even naming 1095 as his ultimate steel. For me, I am not. Maybe having used a couple zdp knives has whetted my wish for better & better blade steel.
I also concede STR's point that for a lot of us sharpening gear & ability is a weak link. I use a Spyderco sharpmaker and DMT diamond hones w/ DMT's 'Aligner' (angle guide similar to Lansky guide). Both work reasonably, but I am not really satisfied with either. I guess sharpening will always get short shrift. Nobody ever posts pics of their cool new sharpener, do they?
Folders: BG-42.
Considering that it's not widely available, I'll say that I also like
154CM, ATS-34, D2, and S30V.
And just below those, VG-10 and AUS10.
The reports of S30V chipping at the edge do bother me a bit.
Hasn't happened to any of my S30V knives, but still...
Fixed blades: Depends on the use.
INFI, A2, 52100, 5160, 1095, 0170-6C - and those already mentioned, except that I prefer D2 only in shorter lengths.
Considering that it's not widely available, I'll say that I also like
154CM, ATS-34, D2, and S30V.
And just below those, VG-10 and AUS10.
The reports of S30V chipping at the edge do bother me a bit.
Hasn't happened to any of my S30V knives, but still...
Fixed blades: Depends on the use.
INFI, A2, 52100, 5160, 1095, 0170-6C - and those already mentioned, except that I prefer D2 only in shorter lengths.
It would depend on how I intended to use the knife.
Would the fixed blade be a beat around knife for camping trips? If so a tougher steel that can sharpen easily would be my choice. If it were going to be a kitchen knife, I'd want something that could take an extremely thin edge and have plenty of corrosion resistance.
Would the fixed blade be a beat around knife for camping trips? If so a tougher steel that can sharpen easily would be my choice. If it were going to be a kitchen knife, I'd want something that could take an extremely thin edge and have plenty of corrosion resistance.