What kind of file for axe sharpening?

Just to chime in.
In the last year I have bought two new files - both Nicholson from Home Depot.
The first was made in Mexico and it dulled to the point of not being worth too much after one project.
The second was made in Brazil and it lasted a bit longer than the Mexico made one one but doesn't remove too much material after two reprofiles.

The files I use most often are older American made files that seem to keep going (each came to me used so my use plus whatever before)/ They look like they were maybe stored/carried together.
Pferd makes a decent file if you aren't hung up on American made only products.

Here is a picture I posted a while ago but since we are talking files again:

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I expect any tool that removes hardened metal to wear and eventually need to be replaced. What I don't understand is how these old files keep running while a new one using 21st century know-how will wear away so quickly. Is it poor steel, poor fabrication, or just trash produced by the lowest bidder just to make a chunk of metal with grooves in it and call it a day?

Is it that today, hand tools are made for one project and planned replacement? Like buying a hardware store saw for it to dull after two cuts?

I would pay more for a new file that stands up like the older ones. Quality tools save time and money and produce better overall work - is there a company or product that pros use that I am just not aware of?
 
They were run harder with better cut teeth historically, from what I can tell. As far as quality files today goes, count me in as another vote for Pferd. It's too early to make any substantive claims right now but I've also been VERY impressed by files from Italian file maker Stella Bianca. So far the quality seems on par with vintage, but it remains to be seen how rapidly they dull.
 
Through importer channels. I got a 6" flat file as a sample and pricing is pretty much on par with the nicer file manufacturers. I have a bunch of four-in-hand rasps on order with them right now, as the pricing was fair and the quality ought to be worlds better than what Nicholson is cranking out right now. Will be interested to see what they're like when they land!
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
. . . As far as quality files today goes, count me in as another vote for Pferd. . .
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Another vote for Pferd.

FortyTwoBlades said:
. . . files from Italian file maker Stella Bianca. . .
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I haven't heard of this maker. Searched for "Stella Bianca files". Came up with their site (http://www.limemeccanica.it/inglese/lime/lime03.html), but couldn't figure out their price list. Other than that no other information came up. Do you have more information? thanks, Bob

EDIT: late again.
 
Stella Bianca is an Italian machinist tools company. I found them because Angelo B. (one of the Italian tool companies I carry) has a few of their files in their catalog and after I saw the maker's mark I went digging and found Stella Bianca's catalog. I've been very impressed with the flat file I have from them. Not much info on them besides that, but from what I've seen so far they make a file good enough to rival the Swiss.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
. . . but from what I've seen so far they make a file good enough to rival the Swiss.
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Thanks

Speaking of Swiss, I heard that Grobet is outsourcing their files to other countries. I have some I bought a few years ago and I think they are very good files. Now I'm not sure I would recommend them.

FWIW, some file comments

Ron Bontz: ". . .
1) the Swiss made needle files are excellent as usual
2) If they are the "Made in India" files, they are crap. Period You are better off buying Bacho or Pferd. Bacho, I think, has the edge.
3) If they are the "Made in Italy" files, they seem to be pretty good, ( so far ) I have some myself.According to a rep. I chatted with, Grobet has very few files left on the shelf that are made by the Swiss. . ."

Rob Lee: "I'll second Ron's comments. We are in the process of re-sourcing files, as Grobet is now sourcing from many countries - we've seen India, Mexico, and Italy so far..."

From a discussion "Grobet American Pattern Saw Files"
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?230987-Grobet-American-Pattern-Saw-Files

Bob
 
Curt Hal said:
So, three for the masters on this forum:
1) Are you finding that files are not the kind of quality they once were? Are there files that, in your experience are better than others?
2) Might there be something wrong in the way that I am filing? I file pretty much according to the book, the way were taught in trade school. Is it possible to be putting too
much downward pressure on the file? I file from the bit towards the poll. As I am finishing, I will file lightly on a 45 degree angle along the edge to even it out.
3) Do you come across edges that seem harder than others of the same make and era? What might account for that?
I look forward to hearing from you on this topic.
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1) Yes, not all files are created equal. The new Nicholsons are made outside the U.S. and are of low quality. Pferd makes good files. Also Simonds. Often you can find vintage files in good shape at garage sales or estate sales. I've found old Heller files to be of the finest quality. Old U.S. made Nicholsons are good. See if you can find a local machine shop supplier who sells cutters and files to the industry. They will have good stuff.

2) Filing bit to poll is correct. The biggest problem that most people have when filing an old axe is dealing with the oxidation layer on the surface of the axe. That thin layer is much harder than the underlying metal. Get through that layer in one small patch using a 2nd cut or bastard file. Then work out from there lifting the oxidation layer from below. You'll save wear on your files and you'll save time. Both pressure and speed need to be right. If your file is chattering then you need to stop right away and change the speed or pressure or both until you find something that works. Sometimes a file that works fine on most axes will just skate across another axe. If you're having trouble try a few different files. Experiment with different speeds and pressures with those other files. You'll find something that works.

3) Yes, similar axe heads from the same maker and same era can file differently. The aforementioned oxidation layer is one issue. Variation in heat treat is another issue. Work hardening can also account for some difference.

If you've had some training on using files then you're well ahead of the pack. Hopefully you have a sturdy vise with the jaws set at about navel height. It should be set on the corner of the bench to provide clear access from at least one side. A blacksmith's leg vise or post mounted machinist vise will give you the best access to the work.

File maker Simonds has published a great primer on files.
http://www.simondsint.com/handfiles/HAND FILES PUBLICATIONS/File Facts.pdf

Alexander Weyger's book, 'The Complete Modern Blacksmith' has a great section on files and filing. That book is the bible for anyone who wishes to repair tools. Whether you have any interest in blacksmithing or not I highly recommend reading it. I've read it cover to cover 3 times and referred to it uncountable other times. It belongs in your collection.
 
Curt, look for NOS Nicholsons. 20+ years old if possible. Or pay a bit more and go with Swiss files.

If it ain't Swiss or older US made, I pass. The steel on the rest of them is just too soft.

Hmm. Pferd (German) are generally pretty good too.
 
rjdankert said:
Thanks

Speaking of Swiss, I heard that Grobet is outsourcing their files to other countries. I have some I bought a few years ago and I think they are very good files. Now I'm not sure I would recommend them.

FWIW, some file comments

Ron Bontz: ". . .
1) the Swiss made needle files are excellent as usual
2) If they are the "Made in India" files, they are crap. Period You are better off buying Bacho or Pferd. Bacho, I think, has the edge.
3) If they are the "Made in Italy" files, they seem to be pretty good, ( so far ) I have some myself.According to a rep. I chatted with, Grobet has very few files left on the shelf that are made by the Swiss. . ."

Rob Lee: "I'll second Ron's comments. We are in the process of re-sourcing files, as Grobet is now sourcing from many countries - we've seen India, Mexico, and Italy so far..."

From a discussion "Grobet American Pattern Saw Files"
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?230987-Grobet-American-Pattern-Saw-Files

Bob
Click to expand...

New post to add information to my previous. Not an endorsement.

Ron Bontz: Bontz Saw Works
http://www.bontzsawworks.net/

Rob Lee: president of Lee Valley
http://www.leevalley.com/us/

Bob
 
I just ordered some Bahco files to try out. Coarse, second cut and fine.
 
Hi Twoinch, Yeah that is a 14" Heller vixen cut file. I believe it was designed for auto body work. It was caked with what I think was lead or aluminum. Took a couple of hours to pick all the material out of teeth (kind of like my last trip to the dentist...). It's actually in great shape and very sharp. I bumped it and nearly dropped it off my workbench. Got 3 deep cuts from it on my thumb before I thought better than grabbing at it. Immediate infection/swelling...

I've used it to remove material from unhardened polls but it is big, not designed for it, depending on the material it clogs up. Just for fun I ran it on a handle to see what it would do - just spent the next 10 minutes picking hickory out of it lol.

The shop owner where I found it said take it cheap as he didn't know its use and had been in a pile of "junk" sitting for several years. It's makers mark is on the edge of the file as opposed to a tanged file. The handle kind of drew me to it.
 
Agent_H said:
Hi Twoinch, Yeah that is a 14" Heller vixen cut file. I believe it was designed for auto body work. It was caked with what I think was lead or aluminum. Took a couple of hours to pick all the material out of teeth (kind of like my last trip to the dentist...). It's actually in great shape and very sharp. I bumped it and nearly dropped it off my workbench. Got 3 deep cuts from it on my thumb before I thought better than grabbing at it. Immediate infection/swelling...

I've used it to remove material from unhardened polls but it is big, not designed for it, depending on the material it clogs up. Just for fun I ran it on a handle to see what it would do - just spent the next 10 minutes picking hickory out of it lol.

The shop owner where I found it said take it cheap as he didn't know its use and had been in a pile of "junk" sitting for several years. It's makers mark is on the edge of the file as opposed to a tanged file. The handle kind of drew me to it.
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You might want to try the rounded file for wood. They are interchangeable with the handle.
 
Square_peg said:
It's cool with that wood handle. Those are great for aluminum and they work well on plastics, too.
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I would not have thought of plastic - I bet it would cleanly remove material, fast

garry3 said:
You might want to try the rounded file for wood. They are interchangeable with the handle.
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Did not think of that but now I'm interested Garry. I've been searching the interwebs and obviously can't come up with the proper key word that is returning mountable wood rasp results. Any ideas on search terms?
 
Steve Tall said:
Suggested search terms:
flexible body file
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Thank you Steve. I see a lot of the vixen cut but not anything wood related that would fit the mounting hole positions of that one. Oh, and I missed this when you posted this as well:
Steve Tall said:
Another S.H. location in Oregon that could be its origin (in addition to Sweet Home) is St. Helens.
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Did not think of St. Helens
You operate on a different level of information parsing – always appreciated :thumbup:
 
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