What kind of stroke for benchstones?

[Lucky Bob]

The reason that the effect of the arc is minimized is that you're only supposed to stroke within the width of the blade table (2-3", don't feel like busting mine out to measure it), which has two effects. The first is that the arc subtended by that width is small relative to its radius, and the second is that if you hold the blade so that the edges of the part you're trying to sharpen line up with the corners of the table, unless the blade has a curve with a surprisingly small radius, there isn't much to stick out from between two points 2-3" apart. Moreover, since the ideal sharpening surface would be equidistant from the main pivot on the arm, the portion of the blade sticking out from the table often better approximates that than the edge of the table itself.

 

[Jason B.]

The reason that the effect of the arc is minimized is that you're only supposed to stroke within the width of the blade table (2-3", don't feel like busting mine out to measure it), which has two effects. The first is that the arc subtended by that width is small relative to its radius, and the second is that if you hold the blade so that the edges of the part you're trying to sharpen line up with the corners of the table, unless the blade has a curve with a surprisingly small radius, there isn't much to stick out from between two points 2-3" apart. Moreover, since the ideal sharpening surface would be equidistant from the main pivot on the arm, the portion of the blade sticking out from the table often better approximates that than the edge of the table itself.

Thank you, that's better and less insulting.


I still, and its MY opinion that its not the be all end all of sharpening tools. Though the problem of angle change through a radius may be minimized its still their and if you have a large blade the idea of grinding small sections at a time does not appeal to me. I'm also not a fan of the very straight V edge that is applied because at low angles chipping and blunting seem to become a problem.

You want a pro's opinion ask Dave Martell what he thinks of a edge pro.

 

[Sparljo]

I find that a circular motion on the stones removes alot of metal in a hurry.

My dad sharpened this way to thin out bevels and to re-grind tips. He used the "figure 8" motion on the tips to keep them nice and pointy for carving.

All that really matters is.... is it sharp enough to do the job at hand?

Perfectly polished angles and edges matter too... but not in the same way.

 

[cbwx34]

Thank you, that's better and less insulting.

I still, and its MY opinion that its not the be all end all of sharpening tools...

I apologize if my post was insulting to you. I didn't mean it that way. I was just trying to convey that you had an inaccurate, quite frankly, wrong perception of how to use the EP... probably based on the video you watched... and there's a bit more to it. But I follow and read a lot of your posts... you obviously have a lot of knowledge about sharpening. So if I came across that you don't know about sharpening, that wasn't my intent.

I never said, and wouldn't say, that the EP is the "be all end all" of sharpening. Sharpening is a bit of a hobby for me, and because of that I have and use a variety of methods to sharpen. All have their pros and cons, but I've come to the conclusion, no great surprise here, that what you use is not near as important as how you use it. Murray Carter puts it, in his video, at: 99% skill, 1% equipment. Maybe a bit overexaggerated, but it proves the point. I would bet that, based on the results you get with what you use now, you could probably take an EdgePro, a belt sander, paper wheels, or even a coarse/fine SiC stone and put a pretty impressive edge on it.... because it's based more on your skill level. Probably not "more".... almost entirely. I found it interesting, in my personal experience, that when I first started sharpening, I could put a better edge on with some methods than others, but that as my skill and knowledge increased, my results across the board seemed to even out. (Probably not as good as if I had just picked one way and stuck to it.....)

The rest of your post is kinda meaningless... it's subjective. If one: way, method, type of edge, type of grind etc. was ever proven to be better than all the others... everyone would sharpen the same way. Again, it all relates to skill level and this kind of returns to the OP. If a person uses a certain method to sharpen... practices and refines it, the end result will be a sharp edge. Put Ben Dale with an EP, Mike Stewart with a belt grinder, you (based on your hair whittling edges) with a set of diamond stones, Dave Martell and his waterstones, and Murray Carter with a brick and cardboard in the same room... and they all would turn out very different, but pretty impressive edges. So I tend to avoid the 'X' type of edge sucks... because I know, from what other pros get, and my personal experience using a variety of stuff, that again it's more skill, and I will add - knowledge of what makes a knife sharp, related. I also avoid the... one method is better... you're a good example. A lot of people think that diamonds don't put a very good edge on a knife... your posts clearly prove the opposite. Many say, for example in the "Razor Edge Book of Sharpening" that you can't put as good an edge on a knife freehand as you can with a guide, but YouTube, the forums, and even my own experience says this isn't so... especially on a practical level.

I do know that Dave did a recent video chat, where he stated that the EP was the only angle guided system he would consider... and that it worked for what it was. But I also know that in general, he doesn't advocate their use... and specifically not for Japanese knives, which is what he specializes in.

cbw

 

[Kbrasmodeler]

See what I mean about no agreement, Frosty? Everyone has their own opinion, and thinks it is "the only way to get a perfect edge". But, look at this quote from Ed Fowler in a related thread:

I tell folks that if they can strike a match they can sharpen a knife and if they practice it will come. Your decision to practice on old knives is a good one - my suggestion is to have fun with it and you will know when you have achieved your goals.

Slice paper, cut rope, carve wood as test material and it won't take long to know how you are progressing in developing one of the most singnificant aspects of using a knife.

You can do anything on a stone to develop and maintain an edge that I can do on a belt grinder - and more!

Some old knives have striations all the way to the spine and still maintain a convex blade. The initial sharpening bevel is gracefully blended into the rest of the blade to minimize the influence of the secondary bevel created in sharpening the edge.

You will not find many people more knowledgable than Ed Fowler. Later in the thread he says this regarding angles:

40 degrees is way too much for a slicing edge, but don't get hung up (for example) on the difference between 17 and 23 degrees, etc. You can learn your angle by cutting as your experience indicates.

So. like I said, just find what works for you, and get's it sharp enough for you. Read a lot in here, and I might even suggest looking at OldJimbo.com, in his Survival index, the post about High Performance blades. Some good info in there about sharpening.

Edited to add: I know most of this is about convex sharpening, but the principles of getting a sharp edge are similiar, and if you freehand on a stone, likely you get a convex edge anyway.