What knife is this?

[deab]

This blade is made by a Chinese knifemaker and only made several dozens. It did follow J.Neilson's design "Buk" but had a few changes. The blade is made of D2 steel. It cast about $30.

It is a shame to talk about the "copies" in china. Most of the copies are from a small town called Yangjiang, which is in Guangdong province, southern China. It is a special place that the government allowing knife making. Most factories in there make kinfes after the western knife companies' design. Of cause they are cheap knives with low quailty and most of the knife users can afford. In China, allrough there are a few laws against the infringement on intellectual property rights, few of them can be done actually. What the goverment care about is the tax.

There did have many original knivemakers in China, and several of them have amazing original designs in my opinion. For example, Carson Huang. The pictures attached are his designs. however, after the original designs coming out, there are lots of "copies" with cheap steel and low quailty following. As a result, the original makers can't earn form their designs.

 

[Jack Black]

I really like the design in the OP. Does anyone have a pic of the J.Neilson design?

 

[deab]

This blade did have a name "Cun-mang", meaning "an inch of blade". The maker is called Xiao-lu-gong. It is a good knife that has sharp blade and good retentive. Unfortunately, it is not a complete original design. Most of it is following J.Neilson's "Buk", but the handle is thicker and the geometry of the blade has a few changes.

 

[Jack Black]

This blade did have a name "Cun-mang", meaning "an inch of blade". The maker is called Xiao-lu-gong. It is a good knife that has sharp blade and good retentive. Unfortunately, it is not a complete original design. Most of it is following J.Neilson's "Buk", but the handle is thicker and the geometry of the blade has a few changes.

Well there are thousands of those. Thanks for the info :thumbup:

 

[deab]

Well there are thousands of those. Thanks for the info :thumbup:

This is a review of Buk, I hope it's helpful..

http://www.britishblades.com/forums...-of-the-J.Neilson-B.U.K-(Basic-Utility-Knife)

 

[Indianbladenoob]

Oh boy, you have a long month ahead of you if you want to try Knife making.
My advice is, take it slow, and buy quality files and sandpaper.
Even buying a cheap 1 x 30 HF belt sander would help quite a bit.

Send out to Darrin Sanders for heat treat, he won't disappoint.

I am way out in India so sending it to Mr.Sanders for HT would be impossible. I use the saw blades because they are already HT'ed to a reasonable hardness. I mean it is used to cut metal sheets so it must be acceptable. There's a lot of these saw blades floating around because apparently a lot of manufacturers who need to cut metal have moved on to better methods. So you find a lot of them being refashioned into knives of some sort. Usually just sharpen up the side with the saw teeth and bolt on a cpl slabs of cheap wood o make a handle. I intend to just refine it more. But I do have a long month ahead of me because they are not easy to grind.

 

[Indianbladenoob]

This blade is made by a Chinese knifemaker and only made several dozens. It did follow J.Neilson's design "Buk" but had a few changes. The blade is made of D2 steel. It cast about $30.

It is a shame to talk about the "copies" in china. Most of the copies are from a small town called Yangjiang, which is in Guangdong province, southern China. It is a special place that the government allowing knife making. Most factories in there make kinfes after the western knife companies' design. Of cause they are cheap knives with low quailty and most of the knife users can afford. In China, allrough there are a few laws against the infringement on intellectual property rights, few of them can be done actually. What the goverment care about is the tax.

There did have many original knivemakers in China, and several of them have amazing original designs in my opinion. For example, Carson Huang. The pictures attached are his designs. however, after the original designs coming out, there are lots of "copies" with cheap steel and low quailty following. As a result, the original makers can't earn form their designs.

Thank you for that identification. I am glad it does not appear to be a blatant rip-off. While the evidence is overwhelming that Chinese manufacturers copy designs of many things a lot of original production is also outsourced to China.
I do love Mr.Huang's work
The first set of folders are a bit busy for my taste but the second set catches my eye...........
Thanks again for that ID.

 

[Indianbladenoob]

I really like the design in the OP. Does anyone have a pic of the J.Neilson design?

Found it after deab identified it.
http://www.arizonacustomknives.com/BUK-Basic-Utility-Knife-by-J-Neilson-11578.aspx
Hope this doesn't break any link posting rules though.
There is also a review on british blades for it from 2005.
The first one was in 52100 (what Busse calls SR-101) and the subsequent versions were in 1080 HC.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/617980-J-Neilson-MS-B-U-K-(Basic-Utility-Knife)
Someone sold one of them on this forum in 2009.

http://www.mountainhollow.net/basic_utility_series.htm
Neilson's page

 

[Indianbladenoob]

This blade did have a name "Cun-mang", meaning "an inch of blade". The maker is called Xiao-lu-gong. It is a good knife that has sharp blade and good retentive. Unfortunately, it is not a complete original design. Most of it is following J.Neilson's "Buk", but the handle is thicker and the geometry of the blade has a few changes.

While you have my gratitude for the identification, I do think its more of a copy than you see and not merely inspired by Mr.Neilson's design. Good knife, it may be, in and of itself, but it is obviously a copy. On arizona custom knives' website, I see it offered in exactly the same handle colours as Xiao-lu-gong is offering it. Handle thickness may be different but they are both FFG's with slightly different final bevel angle. Even the little grind-out on the scales just at the finger choil is quite similar. This is stated at 79mm (3.11 inches) and the original is between 2.7 & 2.9 Inches. So you will understand that while I love the design, all the love goes out to one J.Neilson rather than the board of directors at Xiao-lu-gong.

 

[like em sharp]

If they have the material and the expertise, why cant they make original designs? I have read the fan thread for Bee, Enlan, Navy etc. They seem to be well appreciated, but even they copy Spyderco, Benchmade and Kershaw designs. Thinly veiled too.

Western knife companies copy each other all the time. This is in no way limited to China, but it always, always, ALWAYS comes up in a discussion of this type.

 

[Indianbladenoob]

Western knife companies copy each other all the time. This is in no way limited to China, but it always, always, ALWAYS comes up in a discussion of this type.

I have read a whole thread on SOG v/s Spyderco on this very aspect. The fact that this knife is made in China should not have made a difference to this discussion as my point was "do I want to buy a blatant copy?".
Having said that, the companies I mention in the post actually do have original designs, but they also have obvious rip-offs. And statistically speaking a significant number of such copies originate in that country.

 

[Jack Black]

This is a review of Buk, I hope it's helpful..

http://www.britishblades.com/forums...-of-the-J.Neilson-B.U.K-(Basic-Utility-Knife)

It certainly was, nice review, and a very nice knife. Thanks for the link

 

[Jack Black]

Having looked at both knives, I agree that this IS a copy, though clearly not a fake. However, it's no more so than the dozens of unimaginative copies of the Alan Woods/Ray Mears knife endlessly churned out by generally reputable knife companies in the first world (see my comments on this thread here: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/newreply.php?do=postreply&t=990889).

 

[Indianbladenoob]

Having looked at both knives, I agree that this IS a copy, though clearly not a fake. However, it's no more so than the dozens of unimaginative copies of the Alan Woods/Ray Mears knife endlessly churned out by generally reputable knife companies in the first world (see my comments on this thread here: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/newreply.php?do=postreply&t=990889).

Interesting and possibly valid demarcation. Copy v/s Fake.
A copy is something that is similar to a particular design but does not purport to be by that designer. i.e. the knife on my OP. Utilizing the benefit of someone's original thought to create something similar? What if it is identical? For eg. a Kabar made Dozier look-alike that is branded differently. How much of a difference does there have to be for it to not be a rip-off vis-a-vis the designer?

A fake is something that purports to be of a brand or from a designer it is not. The CRK clones for instance.
You know I really wish one of the many fine designers on this forum would chime in with an opinion if not a stand on this.
How would Mr.Neilson feel if I purchased this blade?

And I just realised there is a copy of the Wood/Mears knife that has J.Neilson's signature on the post you provided a link to.

 

[Jack Black]

And I just realised there is a copy of the Wood/Mears knife that has J.Neilson's signature on the post you provided a link to.

Hadn't realised that, I just took a number of images off the net quite randomly! I think I could have probably filled a whole thread with images of that knife!

 

[Indianbladenoob]

I don't want to be all holier than thou here but there is a part of me that baulks at buying something that is obviously or blatantly a fake.
I don't need fakes to buy and have good knives just as I will never need a Strider/Hinderer/CRK for any real utility greater than my cheap(er) knives.

Copying aspects of a design to enhance a knife is very apparently a common practice. I personally find it incredibly hard to actually come up with an all original design for a knife. Every time I draw something up it reminds me of another design I saw elsewhere. I dare say this will be true for the majority of us. This makes me respect the original designer more, but it also gives some perspective that there can be very few original designs for what is the oldest tool in the world.

And say what you will, the price on this blade is looking better and better considering deab confirms it is actually D2 and he appears to know his beeswax.

 

[Jack Black]

I don't want to be all holier than thou here but there is a part of me that baulks at buying something that is obviously or blatantly a fake.
I don't need fakes to buy and have good knives just as I will never need a Strider/Hinderer/CRK for any real utility greater than my cheap(er) knives.

Copying aspects of a design to enhance a knife is very apparently a common practice. I personally find it incredibly hard to actually come up with an all original design for a knife. Every time I draw something up it reminds me of another design I saw elsewhere. I dare say this will be true for the majority of us. This makes me respect the original designer more, but it also gives some perspective that there can be very few original designs for what is the oldest tool in the world.

And say what you will, the price on this blade is looking better and better considering deab confirms it is actually D2 and he appears to know his beeswax.

There are some very beautiful and well-made copies of Bob Loveless designs. Since they have his blessing, I'd certainly consider one of those. What irritates me about the Wood/Mears copies is that even Alan Wood doesn't think the design is that great, (and Ray is a nice feller with a lot of knowledge, but he's really not a knife designer), and yet it's copied very closely, because it's currently fashionable, by companies who could probably improve on that design, and by some who guard their own designs very closely. I really baulk at buying such a knife, even though many of them are well-made.

A couple of years back I was bought this knife produced by Boker's Magnum sub-division.

I don't think it is precisely a copy of a BRKT design (though I may be wrong about that), but it's very clearly a copy of the BRKT style (and in 440A), and because of that I keep it hidden away in a dark cupboard!

 

[Indianbladenoob]

There are some very beautiful and well-made copies of Bob Loveless designs. Since they have his blessing, I'd certainly consider one of those. What irritates me about the Wood/Mears copies is that even Alan Wood doesn't think the design is that great, (and Ray is a nice feller with a lot of knowledge, but he's really not a knife designer), and yet it's copied very closely, because it's currently fashionable, by companies who could probably improve on that design, and by some who guard their own designs very closely. I really baulk at buying such a knife, even though many of them are well-made.

A couple of years back I was bought this knife produced by Boker's Magnum sub-division.

I don't think it is precisely a copy of a BRKT design (though I may be wrong about that), but it's very clearly a copy of the BRKT style (and in 440A), and because of that I keep it hidden away in a dark cupboard!

Eeeeerrrrrm does anyone see a thinner, FFG, clip point, Becker BK2. And look at the sheath!
You say this is an actual Boker Magnum Knife?

 

[Jack Black]

You say this is an actual Boker Magnum Knife?

It's the Boker Magnum Camp Bowie.

 

[like em sharp]

I have read a whole thread on SOG v/s Spyderco on this very aspect. The fact that this knife is made in China should not have made a difference to this discussion as my point was "do I want to buy a blatant copy?".
Having said that, the companies I mention in the post actually do have original designs, but they also have obvious rip-offs. And statistically speaking a significant number of such copies originate in that country.

SanRenMu and Enlan are major OEMs for western companies. They aren't copies or ripoffs, they're modified designs made for domestic sales, not exports. The parts generally can't be interchanged.