What makes a Bowie a Bowie?

T

the possum

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This is one of those questions that creeps into my mind from time to time. Today I was perusing some of the fantastic (and way more than I can afford!) knives available on Bladegallery and Knifeart, and naturally looked at their selection of "bowies".

However, once again, it seems some people have a different definition of "bowie" than I do. Fer instance, I actually counted them up, and out of over 100 knives, 1/3 of them were definitely NOT Bowies in my opinion, and a good portion of the remainder barely qualified.

What is a Bowie for?
What should the blade, handle, and guard look like?
How should it perform?
How big is a Bowie?
How do YOU define it?
 
Refer to "Bowies, Big Knives, and the Best of Battle Blades" by Bagwell.

All the answers lie here grasshoppa
 
You're probably very accurate in your supposition that one-third of them weren't Bowies. And the other two-thirds probably still differed from each other in appearance.

This won't help you much, but for those of us new to knives in general, it's important to clarify a little history.

My take on it, based on a few sources, is that Jim Bowie liked what are often called toothpick knives. He saw one he liked and bought it, but heavily modified its blade shape after purchase for his own tastes. Interestingly, I don't think there's any photo or accurate description of what it looked like.

As he grew in legendary status, a lot of knife manufacturers began to market their toothpicks as "Bowie knives," and people bought them. For various reasons of trademarking, very few Bowies looked alike.

A Bowie is generally a toothpick-shaped knife with a broad belly. It traditionally but not exclusively features a wooden handle, based on what some makers consider to have been traditional for the late 19th century. It may or may not be reasonably balanced--there are stories that Jim Bowie could throw his well, so right away a lot of makers balanced their blades...although there's no reason you couldn't throw an unbalanced blade just as well with minimal practice!

Some feature guards and pommels, but not always. Purpose? Like any toothpick, it's just an all-around useful blade. Great as a tool, good for fighting, throwing, and just about purpose.

Blade length can be from 6" for smaller ones, all the way in excess of 12", although I think a 9" - 11" blade is probably the average.

I would however throw out this tidbit for everyone to discuss: if we actually found Jim Bowie's "bowie knife," we probably wouldn't recognize it as a Bowie!

Anyone agree? Disagree? I tried to answer the_possum's questions, but I'm sure I didn't say anything not already obvious.
 
While there is great debate over whether Jim's famous knife was made by James Black of Washington, Arkansas, or by J.D. Searle of Baton Rouge, Louisiana, there is little doubt that it was a large knife by any standards. There is also little doubt but that its major purpose was as a fighting knife, a weapon. The Black-types of knives that I have seen are large, 9+", and have clipped points while the J.D. Searle knives are somewhat modified Mediterranean or Spanish daggers that look a good bit like butcher knives. Most clipped Bowies seem to have guards of some type, some even curling out and down toward the blade like Bill Bagwell's Bowies do. But the Searle-style Bowies usually have minimal to no guards on them.

One more thing; both Jim and his brother, Rezin, liked to give knives to friends and to business partners. This means that there are, potentially, a large number of them floating around that can be claimed to have "come from Bowie." It is worth noting that Rezin seemed to have preferred J.D. Searles' knives and gave them away, even, apparently, to Jim on one occassion.
 
A bowie can be whatever you make it! I think traditionally, I've heard it defined as a clip point blade, with lots of belly, sharpened false edge, blade length of between 7 and 10 inches, wood handle, and carried by a bunch of legendary heroes of the old west.

-Rob
 
Alright, I didn't figure it would take long to get some replies with "Bowie" in the thread title. :)
I already have my own opinion of what makes a Bowie, but would like to hear how they differ from most knife nuts. The replies so far have gone from describing rather specific shapes and even handle materials, to whatever you want.

I guess the reason I ask this is because I feel the name has become watered down. If I said "Tactical folder", how many of you would immediately think of a Case multi-blade slipjoint? Let's see some hands. Anyone? Bueller? Yet, when I've said "Bowie", I've had some people immediately think I'm talking about a 6" bladed hunting knife. If I say "Katana" or "Type XIIIa", sword folks would have a fairly good idea what I'm talking about. We have lost that in regards to the Bowie.

Someone has said it's a pure fighting blade. Some have said it's primarily a general purpose tool, that can also be a fighting blade. Others have said it's primary purpose should be fighting, with tool also an important secondary consideration. And then furthermore, one you have decided which of these purposes to focus on, go back and take another look at the other 3 questions in my first post. I realize there can be no "right" answer, I'm just wondering where everyone's opinions lie.
 
In my very humble opinion, a Bowie at this point in our culture can be extremely varied. The only mandatory criteria I can think of are:

Large blade--at LEAST seven inches

Clip Point--preferably sharpened

All else is subject to often very heated debate. My impression is that the earliest Bowies were little more than massive butcher knives, some even without guards, or quillons. That stuff came later, but not much later. Some Bowies of the 1850's-1870's are practically decadent in their ornamentation.

Regardless of design specifics, the Bowie is as American as jazz music and baseball, and an integral, if anecdotal, part of our frontier heritage.
 
I'd say a Bowie knife is any fixed blade that can be used offensively with the tip or edge equally well, as well as performing everyday chores. A clip point is one commen way to achieve this balance between edge and tip function, though not the only (or IMO the best) way to achieve this balance.
The KABAR is actualy the quintessential MODERN bowie knife IMO.
 
EZKleave said:
The KABAR is actualy the quintessential MODERN bowie knife IMO.
Click to expand...

Oh excellent point. I would agree and disagree, the Kabar is the 20th century equivalent to the 19th century Bowie. It was designed to handle multiple tasks and was carried(and still is by some), as a tool that performed equally well in combat and in the field. The mystique of the 19th century bowie, lies in the fact that it was carried by many men for a multitude of reasons and that like the Kabar that followed it, performed these tasks equally well.

Now, the question you have to ask yourself is, what is the bowie of the 21st century? One might say it's the tactical folder. A multi-use tool that can perform its tasks equally well, and is carried by a wide and varied population. Think about it, when was the last time you left your house without a tactical folder? The majority could quite possibly answer, "a long time", how often do you think western settlers, cowboys, and explorers left without their bowies, or soldiers and their equivalents left without their Kabars? So, while I will conceed that the Kabar was the quintessential bowie of the 20th century, what that knife is in the 21st will be hotly debated for a long time yet to come.

Just note though, that the mystique of the bowie is somewhat regional, and remember that styles of knives and knives in general have been important to man and have never been far behind in his travels for millions of years.

-Rob
 
First off. I am NOT trying to upset anyone and I am NOT saying that I'm right.

I had a go at trying to sell sheffield made fixed blade knives. Some of these would be called Bowie knives. I did a fair bit of research into what is a bowie knife. I also tried to find out what is the true "bowie" knife. The following is some of the info I got

IXL renamed their factory Washington works. It is claimed that Bowie carried an IXL clip point knife. There are newspaper articles saying how much he helped sheffields trade by having a IXL knife on his body when he died. Other sources (which I trust more) say there isn't any info on what he had when he died. Other people say Bowie had an american made knife.

My own view is that Jim Bowie seemed to like knives. How many people do you know that are into knives but only have one?. I am sure that he would have had large fighting knives as well as smaller ones. I am sure that any knife fan of the time would have a sheffield knife. The traditional pattern for this is around 6inch clip point blade with a small guard. These have been around for a long time before bowie and are still popular. I reckon the guy liked large knives so anything from 6inch upwards with a genral pupose design can be called a bowie.

I think he may have carried a set of knives rather then just one. A small six inch blade is a great tool for a soilder and is still around today. the USMC kabar and britiish clip point knives issued to the SAS are proof of that (of course I'm not saying either one is better). Maybe for fighting he added a larger 10inch blade
 
Well, though I always enjoy hearing more stories about Jim Bowie, I'm not necessarily interested in his origional knife here. I'm talking about the style of knife that became popular in his lifetime. We may not know what the origional looked like, but there are plenty of other surviving examples from the era that define the genre.

As expected, some of the replies indicate bowies are generally smaller than I think of. I've always figured the more likely I am to need a defensive knife, the bigger it would be. Men in Bowie's day were very likely to need their knives. Are there some 6" bladed knives I'd consider bowies? Sure, but they're the exception to the rule- I don't believe the average bowie would have been that short back in the day. I generally think 9" would be on the smaller end of the scale, and up to 14+ inches the upper end.

I think we could all agree to call this one a Bowie:
7378A-9052.jpg


I'm not saying I think this exact knife is the ideal design or anything, just that it resembles what I think of when I hear the word bowie.
 
I disagree about the size of knife. The six inch clip point knife has been around for a long time before bowie. I think six inch is the small end of bowie knives but they are what I'd consider bowie knives.
I wonder how much better a nine inch blade is in combat. I've done training in that field and like the balance of a six inch knife has. The FS knife isn't much bigger. I doubt bowie knives would have been upto 14inches in length. I find knives that size are often far too heavy and slow you down. A kuk works at that size but the way you fight with it is different. I'd say six to nice in blade would be the norm.
 
I concur with EZKleave about the Kabar. Check out the classic work, "Firearms, Traps, and Tools of the Mountain Men" by Carl P. Russell. He briefly touches on the subject of Bowie knives, and gives the Kabar as an example of a modern version. I think most of us would agree that, if stranded in the wilderness, and/or confronting a hostile person, you could do a lot worse than the Kabar. It's made cameo appearances in a number of my favorite movies, including "Heaven Knows, Mr. Allison," "Taxi Driver," and even "The Searchers." In the last film, the Kabar's resemblance to the Bowie was enough for it to pass as a real frontier blade.
 
To me, a real bowie is pretty much like to the one the possum posted. Thick spine, OAL 12 to 16 inches, wide blade with a narrow sharpened back edge, slightly upswept point, neutral handle, double hilt (although I've heard that the original bowie knife didn't have a real hilt at all I think that almost all of today's bowies seem to sport that feature).
 
Andy-
Of course you have every right to disagree with me, especially since so many modern folks would agree with you. However, take a look at this one:
7378A-9033.jpg


Butterfields called this 6 1/2" bladed knife a bowie, and it's mostly got 'the look'. However, the men who made it 150 years ago etched it "California Hunting Knife", complete with scenes of dogs chasing buffalo.

And again, it depends on what uses you're focusing on. For a general purpose knife that's easy to pack, with a secondary role as a last ditch self defense weapon, the Ka-bar or 6" blade would fill the bowie role. However, if I were about to get in a melee with only one shot from an unreliable flintlock, my knife would be bigger.

As to the extra mass making it unweildy, well, centuries worth of sword carrying soldiers would probably say it's worth it. ;) And yes, bowies made in the flintlock era were generally bigger than later ones. The 14" length I mentioned is probably on the upper end, (the other picture I posted had 11" or 12" blade, which I'd consider more appropriate or 'average'.) but I've held a couple origionals that size or larger. Was it Stephen Austin or Sam Houston who carried a Bowie 22" or 25" long?
 
Well, did some Googling, and Sam Houston's knife ain't the one I was thinking of. His was only 20 inches long.
knif0103.jpg


I was thinking of a really big D-guard bowie...
 
When I think Bowie it is clip point, big guard, big (9" minimum) blade.
In JB's day muzzle loading single shots were the norm.
In the Northeast a tomahawk was the back up. Bowie changed all that with the Sandbar fight. His knife was described as a 'big butcher knife'
I also read that Jim and Rezin hunted wild cattle with the same type of knife.
After he became famous, the knife evolved. Everyone wanted a knife like Bowie's. And every knife became a bowie knife ;)
The knives became smaller as repeating arms became popular and accessible. Knives were less backup weapons and more tools.
I really like the first example that Possum posted.
That screams Bowie to me.

Here is one of my favorites. 10" damascus blade & handle frame, cowbone handle slabs. More of a Sheffield style bowie but I think it still qualifies.
stetdamas.gif
 
Q: What is a Bowie for?

Fighting. As a back up weapon first and, depending on size & other implements carried by the individual, anything from a 'big chopper' to a general utility knife. For example, one might have a large Bowie knife and a small skiner. Or a Bowie that is on the small side and a 'hawk or trade axe to chop with or as one's first choice of back up weapons. I suppose it would depend on the individual.

Q: What should the blade, handle, and guard look like?

That varies a bit. In general, I think of a clip point, but a spear point or 'Rio Grande' style would qualify too IMO. Handle could be wood, stag or maybe even horn. Guard could be a cross style like the one in the first pic you posted, curved in an "S" or non-existent.

Q: How should it perform?

It should be at least slightly blade heavy, if not more sword or machete like. Ideally it will be long enough to thrust, hack, slash and parry larger weapons such as the sword, bayonet or tomahawk.

Q: How big is a Bowie?

The 6" California Hunter would have qualified in my book but based upon information on the Cubit gleaned elsewhere on these forums (see "ideal blade size" thread in P/T section), I would say the 'quentisential' Bowie knife would be anywhere from 13.5" to 18" long overall, based on the size of the person and / or personal preference.

How do YOU define it?

A large knife (6" - 14" blade), thick, wide blade, generally single edged with a clip point but variations including spear points & sharpened false edges still quality as "Bowies" in my opinion.

As for the K-bar, there is enough history behind it to be considered 'venerable' but as far as Bowies go, a handle heavy 7" blade is not the ideal IMO. I think Bill Bagwell had some honest & unflatering things to say about the K-bar some years ago...

And that was a very thought provoking point by RandomMan about the folder, though I'll never concede a 4" folder to be a REAL Bowie. ...Call me a traditionalist!?!
 
The bowie of the 21st century is still probably a fixed blade, even "tactical folders" are not tactical knives IMO. They click when deployed, destroying the stealth factor involved in offensive knife use and the hinge mechanisms, while greatly improved over the years cannot stand up to prying and twisting like a fixed blade. Twisting and prying are essential aspects of knife fighting, half the work is getting the knife into the other guy, the other half is making sure the withdrawl of the blade does at least as much damage as the insertion.
The "combat knife" of the 21st century as I see it is a LOT less glamorous than you guys probably want to hear, it's the lowely box cutter, as demonstrated by the WTC attacks of 9/11. Just my opinion of course.
 
AndyL, granted the smaller knives have always been around. But so have swords. During Bowie's day swords were on the wane, but duels were still fought and sword was still taught. Firearms were popular but nowhere near as reliable as today. Again they were all single shot and laborious to reload.

I really believe that the big knife that he carried was a fighting/killing knife.
Not a pry bar. Not a wood chopper. Not a utility blade. If used for anything else I'd say 'butcher knife' chores.

Bowie #1 in the Alamo museum is a big guardless knife with the blade canted in relation to the handle...looks like something a butcher would use, to me.

The Kbar and Randall 1 are modern interpetations of the bowie.

I think that the chopping/prying usage is modern too. Maybe justification for carrying such a large knife. Bowie was a genlteman and a slave owner. Somehow I don't picture him on the prarie cutting sod or chopping wood for the Franklin stove with his knife. Axes were common and folks knew how to use them.

This discussion, while fun, has no real answer. The answers are lost to time.
I think it would be safe to say that the knife JB had at the sandbar was a butcher (as described by an eye witness). After he got famous a knife befitting his reputation would seem to be appropriate. It is well known that the Bowie brothers gave away many knives. Maybe those were blades that they bought and tired of? Much like what we see here in the for sale forums?

Once the cutlers in Sheffield got a hold of the notion, every knife became a bowie knife. A fad like tactical is now.

Wouldn't it be something if the knife that Bowie carried at the Alamo was found and documented? What do you think it would go for? A million?

I want a knife like Bowie's!
 
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