What makes a Bowie a Bowie?

Ebbtide wrote:
Wouldn't it be something if the knife that Bowie carried at the Alamo was found and documented? What do you think it would go for? A million?
Click to expand...

I believe it would go for an eight digit figure. :eek:
Just think, Bowie's knife would be THE crown jewel of most any millionaire's posessions.
You know, there are many multi-millionaires and billionaires in this country/world who collect one-of-a-kinds, especially in the weapons arena. Imagine the bragging rights that would entitle one to. That would be a huge boost to one's ego/status to own that knife.
I'm thinking a million would be the starting bid. :eek:


I think an artifact like that would would trigger a bid war not often seen in this world. The big auction houses would be climbing all over each other to get that one on their auction block.
 
Although this may conflict with my libertarian sentiments, I think the owner of Bowie's Bowie would be obliged to donate it to the great state of Texas. It would truly be the Excalibur of the Lone Star state.
 
Lost Jaguar wrote:
I think the owner of Bowie's Bowie would be obliged to donate it to the great state of Texas.
Click to expand...

While that would be very kind hearted and I like the idea of that, the owner of Jim Bowie's "Bowie" has the equivalent of a lottery ticket with all six numbers matching. Unfortunately I don't believe someone in that situation would be likely to give away the prize. Unless, of course, that person were already financially independent and would allow the state of Texas to display it at the Alamo while maintaining ownership of it.

I guess I'm having a hard time seeing the man with Bowie's "Bowie" giving that very highly prized piece of cutlery away. :eek: Even under the banner of "donating" it.

It would be a huge gesture though and would bring Texas even more tourist dollars than it already makes annually. I know of at least 17,000 people who'd make it a point to go and pay homage to the American Excalibur were it to be unearthed and verified without a shadow of a doubt. :cool:
 
Lost Jaguar said:
Although this may conflict with my libertarian sentiments, I think the owner of Bowie's Bowie would be obliged to donate it to the great state of Texas. It would truly be the Excalibur of the Lone Star state.
Click to expand...

Good luck! If I owned that knife you would have to pry it from my cold dead fingers.

Many of the big D-guard bowies of the Civil War era started out as swords. After they were broken they were turned into knives. That is why some have blades over 20 inches.

It seems that today all the is needed is for the knife to have a handle and a blade for it to be referred to by some as a bowie. There are many different styles of bowie that I feel fit the criteria, but I don't think a clip point hunting knife is one of them, even though I have seen these called bowies quite often.

When all is said and done, the term bowie knive has has come to have a very wide scope. Knives with blades from 4" to 20", with double, single or no guard, clip, spear, straight or trailing point. If it is a fixed blade knife then it has probably been called a bowie by someone at sometime or other.
 
Gentlemen, I beg your pardon. I had imagined a scenario in which the owner of this Holy Grail would most likely be fabulously wealthy. This being the case, he would profit more in good will via this donation than he would by keeping it for himself.

I understand the pangs of desire completely. Were I by some miracle to come in posession of this knife, I would spend many hours holding it, and slashing the air with it, then I would give it to Texas, and her children, with the sole provision that I could occasionally visit with it alone, so I could once again slash the air.

Just as long as they don't put it in the basement of the Alamo, with Pee-Wee's bicycle.
 
Keith Montgomery said:
It seems that today all the is needed is for the knife to have a handle and a blade for it to be referred to by some as a bowie... Knives with blades from 4" to 20", with double, single or no guard, clip, spear, straight or trailing point. If it is a fixed blade knife then it has probably been called a bowie by someone at sometime or other.
Click to expand...

I think you described the current situation accurately. However, do you think this is the way it should be? Are YOU this loose with the definition? (an honest question to a fellow Bowie lover)

I have not seen too many cut down swords with 20" blades. Got any pictures? I have seen several origionals made as big knives from the start, that were in the 20" range overall. (not 20" blade)

James- I apreciate your comments. Several of your opinions match my own.

I think I'll finally throw in my thoughts:

1. Big blade. 9"-14+", with 11"-12" being a good "average".
2. Clip point, centered or below center with the handle line
3. Sharpened false edge
4. Double crossguard
5. Symmetrical handle shape (unless made from naturaly curved material, like horn)
6. Sheath system as used in that time period

BUT, this is a "mix-n-match" list. I'd still call a knife a bowie if it met several of these criteria, but not all. For instance, it can have a spear point if it's still big, with a double guard and symetrical handle. It can be smaller, if it has a clip point blade, sharpened false edge, and is carried in a belt-stud scabbard. It can have a straight back blade, and single crossguard, if it still has a sharpened false edge, symmetrical handle, and decent size. A small, trailing point blade, dropped handle, and modern sheath do not qualify in my opinion.
 
the possum said:
I think you described the current situation accurately. However, do you think this is the way it should be? Are YOU this loose with the definition? (an honest question to a fellow Bowie lover)
Click to expand...

No, I certainly am not. I do however accept quite a few different patterns as bowies. My personal favorites are the double guard, clip point, 10 - 12 inch bladed ones, but I also really like Bowie no.1, the Tah Chee bowie and the Searles and Schively style guardless bowies. Some of the Sheffield bowies appeal to me as well and many of them had blades well under 9 inches.

I have heard knives like Becker BK9s referred to a bowies. Personally, I think one would be closer in calling this style of knife a machete than a bowie, though that would be incorrect as well.
 
Texas?!
Shouldn't the knife go to Mississippi?
Bowie had the fight that made him famous in Mississippi.
He got killed in Texas.
;)
:footinmou
:D

...really like Bowie no.1, the Tah Chee bowie and the Searles and Schively style guardless bowies.
Click to expand...

I think all of those could justly be called Bowies since they are documented to the time period. And were referred to as such, then.
 
Ebbtide said:
Texas?!
Shouldn't the knife go to Mississippi?
Bowie had the fight that made him famous in Mississippi.
He got killed in Texas.! ;) :footinmou :D
Click to expand...

Slow down there Ebb!!! Mishippy? :eek:
I am sure the sandbar is long washed away...(as much of what was 'Alamo' is beneath streets and buildings....) I don't think the Alamo and the DRT have the security in place to protect JB's "real" knife. A bunch of people got in there back in 1836 and took all kinds of stuff. However, like Ozzy 'relieving' himself :mad: along one wall of the shrine, I pity the fool who dares to steal the Bowie bowie!
Don't tug on Superman's cape....yadda yadda... and you don't mess around with Jim's Knife.
 
First, not all Bowie knives have clipped points on them. I give as an example this knife by Harvey Dean and is to be seen at http://www.harveydean.com/Antique_Reproductions.htm These were made by knifesmith Daniel Searles of Baton Rouge, Louisiana, and his knives were frequently given by Jim and Rezin Bowie as gifts. Indeed, it is thought that Jim carried one of them at the Sandbar Fight. As you can see, they really do look like a large butcherknife, as Jim Bowie was described as having carried.

Second, the size is not really that important, IMO. My favorite knife is a 40+ year old Randall No. 12 6" Sportsman's Bowie that I bought back in the Fall of 1961. It is an exact duplicate of theone pictured as Knife C on this page: http://www.randallknives.com/bowie.asp I have seen many, and more, historical Bowie knives that are that size.

Third and finally, you all must remember that the huge Bowies of the early War Between the States period, such as the D-Guard Bowies that Johnny Reb carried, were largely discarded as being to big and unwieldy to tote around. I have read that most of them did not survive beyond the first year of the War. It was not only Johnny Reb who tossed them, it was his Yank opponents as well.
 
Hey there, Fuller. Thanks for the thoughts, and that link. Love them dress bowies.
I do want to clarify a few things though, in case I was misunderstood.

I'm in complete agreement that a bowie does not necessarily have to have a clip point blade. It just happens to be the most common pattern I think of.

Yeah, there are 6" knives I'd call bowies as well. However, I think at least the early definition leans more toward its role as an effective weapon rather than utility piece. And, as I pointed out, and you reinforced with your own example, at least some of those "historical bowies" were not bowies at all. They were smaller "sporting knives" that looked like their larger cousins. Only now do we call them bowies.

As to the bowie's role in the Civil War-
Not only are we comparing different times, but also different roles. By then, repeating pistols were far more practical, and the percussion ignition was regarded as more reliable. So there would be less real need for even a civilian to basically carry a short sword. Aside from that, a big bowie still doesn't have the reach of the bayonets mounted on the end of a Springfield rifled musket, so what's the use of carrying one? The personal rifles carried by Bowie, Crocket, and other mountain men in all likelyhood did not have bayonets. Also, the civil war soldier had plenty of other equipment to carry along on long marches. A gentleman out about his business in 1830 did not have to lug around a bedroll, canteens, etc.
 
the possum said:
Well, did some Googling, and Sam Houston's knife ain't the one I was thinking of. His was only 20 inches long.
knif0103.jpg


I was thinking of a really big D-guard bowie...
Click to expand...
Possum, this was what led me to talking about the War Between the States and what happened to all of the huge Bowies that both sides carried into the beginning of the War. The D-Guard Bowie was, as far as I can see, a device peculiar to the Confederate States of this period, a sort of a cross between a large knife and a cutlass or the old hanger from Napoleonic and earlier periods. I don't think that I have ever seen or heard of a D-Guard Bowie outside of that context.

On the subject of what is the modern version of the Bowie, I'd have to go with the Randall No. 1 for the 20th Century and I have not decided for the 21st Century. The Randall is the fighting knife that set the style for all subsequent fighters from 1942 on and was still much in demand in VietNam and in Gulf War I. The only proviso was that you get it with a micarta rather than a stacked leather hilt as the micarta holds up ever so much better.
 
My absolute favorite Christmas present in Flayderman's The Bowie Knife book.
Everyone reading this thread needs it!
I've only spot read and drooled over the pix, this will provide entertainment & inspiration for a long time.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top