What makes a "Bowie" a Bowie?

B

Bumppo

Joined
Jan 27, 2006
Messages
1,290
What defines a Bowie Knife? Is it certain features, blade length, any big Knife? What are the minimum to maximum lengths? What makes a Bowie not just a big knife?
 
There are so many knives that can be called "Bowies" that I would be very hesitant to try to define what is and what is not a Bowie Knife.
 
The problem being all the cheap Sheffield imports in the 1800's which offered every know premutation of style and design - something every cheap importer still does today.

A large fixed blade clip point is the about the simplest definition - guards, notches, handle shape, grooves, engraving, and pinning aside.
 
This is not true for everybody, but when somebody says "bowie," I think of a large fixed blade with a minimum blade length of about 9 in. It usually has a large clip point and possibily a drop point. The blade is about 1 1/2 in wide give or take a little. This does not mean that this is the definition of a bowie knife, it is simply what I think of when I see or hear "bowie."
 
It is an increasingly generic term. People are calling small folders with a 4" clip point blade a "Bowie" and this is makers doing it too. Somewhere along the line anything with a clip point became a Bowie? I only consider large fixed blade knives as bowies.
 
But when you talk of clip points, you have already disqualified the James Daniel Searles Bowies and, in all likelihod, the knife that James Bowie carried at the Sandbar Fight as it was a "butcher knife" tyoe given him by his brother, Rezin. And when you say that they must be of huge size, you have eliminated the "Gentleman's Bowies" that were so popular among the gentleman duellists of New Orleans in the 1830s and 1840s as well as the Bart Moore Bowie which may well have been carried by James at the Alamo.

For a number of good links on the subject of historical Bowies as well as tapes on the tactical use of a Bowie knife, try this site:
http://www.jamesakeating.com/instructional1.html
 
I know that none of these famous bowies have clip points, but when I hear the term, something like the Iron Mistress bowie pops into my head. I am not saying that the Searles is not a bowie, it is, I am simply saying that something like the Iron Mistress, not the Searles, pops into my head when I hear the term. I was not defining the bowie knife, I was simply describing what I picture when I think of the word, "bowie."

As for anything that is 4 in long, much less a folder, being called a bowie, I think it is ridiculous.
 
Here is a link to an article on historical Bowies with links to pictures of spome ot the most famous:
http://www.tamu.edu/ccbn/dewitt/adp/history/bios/bowie/knife_like_bowies.html

Please note the small size of some of these blades.

You will note that both Rezin and James seemingly gave away a number of knives over the years. This is not unreasonable given that they were both knife lovers in a society where a good knife was a valued asset and that they were also businessmen who would have likely been giving such items as business presents.
 
Thanks for everyone's help! I did not realize there was not a fixed "absolute" to define a bowie. The links are very helpful.
 
Have to admit I do think of the Musso, i love it personally and i'd take a guess that Bowie's was pretty large something to get the blood pumping in his opponents and himself. And I don't think he was a really tall guy, not many people were then, so the longer the better as it would have given him more reach and indeed more presence.
He carried more than one knife too, 5ish on my last count and then some Sheffiled makers like Wostenholm claim that he has one of theirs so more than likely it was probably quite large 8inch+ blade and had a guard ovalesque and quie a long and sturdy hilt.
On the note that it was "just a hunting knife" I don't think any knife round them was just that your life was dependetn on it in more wasy that simple for hunting :D
 
Several biographies of James Bowie say that he was 6' or so and very strong, being built like a bull. They also say that one of the knives that he carried at the Alamo apparently had a blade of about 7 1/2" and was taken off of his body by the woman who had been nursing him and carried out of the mission. It was apparently a Sheffield made knife, but remember that these were the best production knives available at the time. As I said, both James and his older brother, Rezin, were knife lovers and apparently gave away several each to friends and business acquaintances. That appears to account for SOME of the knives out there that are claimed to have "belonged to Bowie."

I feel compelled to add that, as one who grew up in the 1950s, my image of the Bowie knife was that of the Iron Mistress knife, a very large and heavy blade with a clipped point. I was a huge fan of the film and then of the TV series, "The Adventures of Jim Bowie" that came on every Friday evening after "Rin Tin Tin." Both used the same knife. BTW, pootsythesamurai, perhaps your image of Bowie as a smallish man was influenced by Allan Ladd's portrayal of Bowie in "The Iron Mistress." Ladd was known for being a short man and, for instance, they had him standing on a box or had Jean Arthur, his leading lady, standing in a hole during any kissing scenes in "Shane" as they didn't want her looking taller than the hero.
 
Thanks always wondered what height he was, still if he was that tall he may have wanted a knife that reflected that, and so the Musso or a blade of 8 to 10 inch.

The sheffield one would have been a wostenholm 10 inch blade, 7/16 of an inch thick: http://www.shopping-emporium.co.uk/bowie-knives/
that's what they claim anyway, personally I don't really like it that much, the Musso on the other hand I love and I have to admit the iron Mistress one is nice too I've got a pic of one made by a French maker and it's a beaut lovely hamon and all.
 
Please see the following excerpt from the article on James Bowie cited in one of my posts above.
http://www.tamu.edu/ccbn/dewitt/adp/history/bios/bowie/knife_like_bowies.html

The San Jacinto Museum has a spear point Bowie on display that Madame Candaleria alleges she took from the Alamo and later gave to the family of Sam Houston. Candaleria claimed that she was the nurse of James Bowie during the Alamo siege and took it from his body after his death. The English-made knife is marked W. & S. Butcher. It has a six-inch blade with a small nickel cross guard and is fitted with stag scale handles. There is also a second Alamo Bowie given by Candaleria to Charles Campbell of San Antonio who displayed it in his drug store. 15

15. [15]Edmondson, J.R., Dixie Gun Works 1991Blackpowder Annual, "The Quest for Bowies Blade", pp.103 - 104.
Click to expand...

There is a link to the W. & S. Butcher knife in that article and it is as described. I would suggest that Bowie may well have had more than one knife with him at the Alamo and that this could have been one of them. We will never know for certain.

BTW, before you get too hyped on that Musso Bowie, I suggest that you read some of what Bernard Levine has to say on it. You might try entering "Musso Bowie" into the "Search" system and see what comes of that. I am not certain what to make of Levine's assertions, but he certainly makes his point in the strogest of terms. I, personally, have the Generation 2 Musso Bowie and the Atlanta Cutlery Primitive Bowie which is based upon the Musso Bowie and I would like to believe that the Musso Bowie is THE knife of James Bowie but it cannot be proven and never will be able to be proven, in all probability.
 
Flayderman's book is a must have for any Bowie nut out there.
bowiebook.gif
 
" A Bowie knife should be sharp enough to shave,heavy enough to use as a hatchet,broad enough to use as a paddle, and long enough to use as a sword" .This old maxim gives the qualifications for, if not the ultimate description of 'The Bowie knife'. You have the Generation 2 Bowie (LUST ,PANT ,DROOL !) Why doncha' sell it to me ? I did not see it till they were all gone. I think the Gen 2 is the finest rendition of the Bowie design I have ever seen,the ultimate fighting knife. I can almost feel it in my sweaty palm,a "live" blade if ever I've seen one. I got the Atlanta Cut. primitive to try and convert it to the GEN 2, but the clip point drops too steeply for the Gen 2 template to work. I did eyeball the conversion,hated the needle point ennyhoo. I am currently modifying the Dixie Gun Works Frontier Bowie,the steel is questionable though. Nothing compares to the Gen 2 rendition though ! Well my desire for the Gen 2 has kickstarted me into knifemaking (so I can have the closest thing to it) something I've wanted to do for 50 years.
 
To me, a true bowie has top be a permutation of the fighting knives used in the mid 1800s. There were quite a few styles, but they are still recogizeable. Today people call knives like the BK-9 a bowie, and I disagree with that completely.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top