What makes a Custom Knife Maker Good?

golok

golok

Joined
Oct 20, 2000
Messages
4,453

I am not particularly familiar with the intricacies of Custom Knifemaking and custom knives.

Knife knuts tell me that a custom knife normally costs about 4 to 10 times more than a production knife.

Then again, it is said that for some "King-of-the-Hill" knifemakers, clients may have to wait as long as six years.

I understand that the really good custom bladesmen have their reputation forged in the white-hot furnace during the almost forgotten years of hard toil and dreadful endless months of living near poverty. Finally after all those years of "hammering away in quiet desperation", they emerge with a reputation as tough as the knives they forge.

However not many custom knifemaker live to enjoy this kind of reputation and all the riches that come with it.

My question is: Give me at least 5 good reasons what makes a customs knifeman stands above his contemporaries?

And then there is a quiet gossip that doesn't go around that often but I have heard it in whispers. One guy leaned over to my ear one day and said: "You know so-and-so are beginning to make low-quality knives despite his reputation. Too much business has gone to his head and the professionalism has slipped out of his hands."

Does that actually happen? I wonder.

Another thing: Some of the Custom knives are really expensive.

A few have their prices orbiting in the stratosphere. Are the prices justified? Or are the high prices and scarcity of these items giving knife collectors the erroneous impression that these knives are excellent-below-question products, and therefore unjustifiably elevating the reputation of some custom knifemakers?

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Make Love your strongest weapon. Compassion your shield and forgiveness your armour.
 
I will give you One reason: Integrity

Knifemakers that make into the stratosphere have that in great abundance and Excess.

Some knives by some makers command much higher prices because their work is no longer just a knife. It is Art, or history, or reputation. The price no longer is determined by the quality of a particular piece. Rather, the price is determined by Who made it.

Go to a show. Talk to the makers. Handle their knives. I am sure you will not have any more trouble understanding why their prices are higher than 'equivalent' production knives. Because there simply are No equivalent production knives.

It's something you have to Feel, not understand, especially if you are going to compare the work of folks like Loveless and Moran to other custom knifemakers. The price for these makers work has little to do with the knife itself, and Everything to do with who the maker is, and what he stands for.

Paracelsus, observing that golok is asking some great questions. He will need to sort out the answers for himself.
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Paracelsus:
I will give you One reason: Integrity
The price for these makers work has little to do with the knife itself, and Everything to do with who the maker is, and what he stands for.</font>
Click to expand...

The above contains a kernal of truth. However, the knife itself, to me, has a great deal to do with what I value, which is not monetary, but the art and craft evident in the fit, finish and design of the knife.
 
That's a reasonable answer, Paracelsus.

I have heard about Bill Moran. In fact, I have been following his career for a long time.

Moran is like a Godfather of Knives. His very name invokes the kind of awe that befits a living legend.

You are right, I will have to visit one of these knife shows and meet the people behind their knives.

The only problem is 10,000 miles that separate your nation and mine. There are no such shows in my country. But I am sure I will make it to one before I retire. That's a long way from now.

Paracelsus, it's always nice talking to you. You are among the few who frequently comes up with the most succinct reply that's almost equivalent to a koan.

Golok salutes you!

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Make Love your strongest weapon. Compassion your shield and forgiveness your armour.
 
Here are my criteria:

Is the maker responsive to emails, or does he act like you're bothering him/her?

Will the maker make the knife the way you want it? (left-handed, certain blade steel, certain handle material etc.)

Is the maker willing to explain his processes? Does he outsource any of his work?

If I'm going to pay lots of $$$ to a maker, I try to make sure it is a maker I want to support.

~Mitch

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My Hobby Page
 
All things equal, what seperates them is work ethic and business savy.

Many, many, many, knife makers that were techniquely as good, or in some cases better, then "famous" makers, fail. THe reason they fail is usually 2 fold: lack of work ethic, and even more lack of business skills.

Im a maker, and besides actually learning to make a good knife, the hardest thing for me is the paper work (keepin up with orders, bills, etc..).

Any how, all im trying to say is there is much more than being able to make a good knife in becoming a good knife maker.

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"Never hit a man unless you must, but if you must, knock him down" Teddy Roosevelt.

www.lameyknives.com
 
A good knife is Always

Worth much more than Paper

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There are so many attributes one credits a "good knifemaker" with, but perhaps the most important are experience, creativity, and, as Para already mentioned, integrity.

Experience is not necessarily measured in years, but rather in volume of work and lessons learned. There are some relatively young makers with more experience than many of the old hands in the business. They gained their experience through dedication, hard work, and a passion for improvement not only of their own skills but of the entire craft. They attain a level of knowledge and acquire such an innate feel for their craft that knifemaking becomes almost instinctive. Whether at the forge or the grinding wheel or the file, these makers perform each step in the process with such precision and accuracy that their finished product is entirely without flaw.

Creativity, however, is something many makers, even "good" makers, simply don't posess. Though they are skilled, they lack the vision to stray from the old accepted standards. The best custom makers, however, use their experience and their creativity to innovate, improve, even invent new materials, processes, and designs. Then, not only is their product one of exacting quality, but also more useful, durable, varsatile, comfortable, or beautiful than any other knife that came before it.

Integrity comes from a maker's respect for himself and his work. This is obviously true of any profession, but perhaps more evident among artisans and craftsman, especially those such as knifemakers whose customers may one day entrust their lives to the product they buy. Integrity means never accepting a lower standard, and always being honest. Most importantly, however, the integrity of a custom maker results in a satisfaction and pride that you can hear in his words and see on his face with every knife he completes.

That's just one man's humble opinion though. Each buyer, user, or fellow maker will have his own....
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Oh, and for the W&C crowd, integrity also means never selling out.
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Great post Wulf! Thanks
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Integrity encompases all the ideas discussed so far. It also includes respect for work, for customers, for the sources of inspiration and learning, and for one's own life, and the reasons for Being a knifemaker.

If folks become knifemakers just because they think they can make lots of money, you can be sure they will fail for lack of Integrity. But if a knifemaker tries to Live by making knives, he had better Understand money, and what it's worth. It is very difficult to live on the Razor's Edge.

Paracelsus, observing the world around him

[This message has been edited by Paracelsus (edited 12-06-2000).]
 
Bravo Wulf. Well spoken.

I share your sentiments. You are obviously a knifeman who knows what he wants, how he wants it and how to get it.

In your opinion, currently who are the best five custom knifemen?

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Make Love your strongest weapon. Compassion your shield and forgiveness your armour.
 
There are a lot of good knifemakers out there that never become well known because they lack the money or skill to advertise themselves. As a result they are limited to being a very well known "local" knifemaker who makes excellent knives at a reasonable price. The only way to find these people is to ask around the forums, questions such as "what lesser known makers would you recommend for Bowie knives" usually bring a good response then it is up to you to contact the maker directly and see if you can work with him.

Contact and customer service is as important to the customer as the knife itself.


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george
www.tichbourneknives.com
sales@tichbourneknives.com


 
George, I too believe that there are a whole community of these fairly unknown but excellent customs knifemen.

It is believed among some knife collectors that these aspiring customs chaps are easier to talk to because they are more receptive to suggestions and ideas.

On top of it, they try harder because they have something to prove.

Many are really talented. Opportunities are there but Lady Luck sometimes favour only a chosen few.

Speaking for myself, and for some of my friends, we sometimes prefer to meet these lesser knowns because they are not booked till Christmas next year. Of course, their prices are pretty reasonable too.

From experience, I have learnt that those-who-try-harder often come up with better results.




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Make Love your strongest weapon. Compassion your shield and forgiveness your armour.
 
Great answers here from Wulf, Para and Matt!

Just want to add that the famous also stay famous by sticking with the ethics and desire to learn. As with any profession, being on the leading edge of change and new development can be difficult at times, but the long term rewards make up for it. An attitude of never being satisfied with oneself as far as accomplishments helps.

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" The real art of living is too keep alive the longing in human beings to become greater versions of themselves." Laurens Van der Post.
In memory of James Mattis
 
For some reason this thread reminds me of a quote I heard a long time ago.

"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence.
Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb.
Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts.
Persistence and determination alone is omnipotent.

Calvin Coolidge

Why would knife making be any different?
 
Golok, Para, everyone.....Very good points, very good reading! Another makers point of view
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I feel that success with knifemaking, is about the same as being successful with any business. Anyone that has started a successful business will say that you must ENJOY "doing it all" this means everything from CEO duties to taking the garbage out.
As far knifemaking, I feel that one must enjoy the interaction with the customers as much as working in the shop. There have been times that I've spent the entire evening on the phone talking knives with customers.....returning to the shop to find my belt grinder still running
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This cannot be considered unproductive time. It's all part of the business and I do enjoy talking knives!! I have also taken up many hours of other makers time to advance my knifemaking, it all works out.
My personal goal in regard to knifemaking is rather simple......Develope a "Kit Carsonesque" reputation for quality, fit, finish and attention to detail..... Then maintain it throughout my entire knifemaking career!! Throw in good customer relations and maintain an accurate delivery schedule and I think that about covers it. No problem right?? LOL
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I'm looking forward to following this thread
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Neil


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Talonite......Stellite
Knives in STOCK!! I just updated my website, PLEASE take a look
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blackwoodknives.com

[This message has been edited by Dr.Lathe (edited 12-06-2000).]
 
I have just taken a visual journey through
Darrel, Tom and DrLathe knife sites. Astounding testimonies of what mastercraftsmen can achieve in the pursuit of excellence.
The knives on display at all three sites bear strong witness to these three men's dedication to their craft.

I am very impressed. It gives knife lovers like me great hope and joy that such beautiful and durable creations are being made by people who believe knifemaking is indeed their lives and they prove it each time they come up with a beautiful piece.

Congratulations, guys! Great stuff.


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Make Love your strongest weapon. Compassion your shield and forgiveness your armour.
 
hello

I am not talking as a maker, now, but as a custom knife lover with more than ten years of experience. I have listed some basic characteristics that can turn a maekr into a success, and technical skills are not even the second of these. Here they are:

Love - you will recognize a maker who loves what he does form another who could be making ivory handle hammers or scrimshaw decorated mobile phones on the spot. This is hard to explaine but surely adds immediate interest to his work.

His interaction with his peers and his customers - a nice guy will aways be a nice maker, and people will recognize this... and will recognize the opposite, too. You can see this through things like sharing tips with other makers and the way the maker talk to people around him. There are more than one way for a maker to tell a customer his delivery time is 4 years.

His business habilities - there are dozen sof makers out there who are nice guys and make excellent knives who just don´t want to hear about the business side of knifemaking and boring things like business policies, paperwork and advertising; while they still can earn a living, they have little chance of becoming a great success.

The quality of the work: while the maker doesn´t have to be unbelievably skillfull, it helps to make at least a professional level knife. Unbelievable skill aways helps, though.

The style: being creative is very different from being skillfull and most makers fail on this point. If an average skilled maker is able to sign his knives with his style, he surely is much closer to success than a highly skilled one who can only execute customers´projects.

Other people may not agree with te order I placed these characteristc in or find other characteristics more valuable but this is the set of criteria I use to choose the knives I buy for my collection.
Still, I have no explanation to the makers that behave umprofessionally, use dirty tricks against their peers, fool customers, offer poor quality copies of other makers´work at higher prices and are still around and even have followers!

P.S.: As a full-time maker, though, I can only say that I have a lot of the first characteristic I described, but leave to others to judje the rest!

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Ivan Campos
Full-time knifemaker...finally!

http://www.bitweb.com.br/users/campos
 
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