What makes a knife "traditional"?

First of all it's gotta be a slipjoint, lock back or any variation of one ( ie pick lock ...ect ), friction folder, barrel lock, ring lock, brass liner lock, or just look traditional if it's a fixed blade.
It's gotta have a traditional handle material, and it's gotta have a recognizeable traditional pattern.
If it's a more recently developed pattern like something similar to a back pocket, it should at least be something that wouldn't look out of place in the 60's.
 
Case Sodbuster and whatever Trapper or Barlow my caught my grandfather's eye at the local hardware store. I grew up around those knives and a couple decades later I discovered GEC and this subforum. Mind blown and bank account lightened
 
knifeswapper said:
Not to offend, but I am not really looking for any given forums rules as much as the thoughts of fellow knife nuts.
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As a knife knut, then.
There is an old aphorism, "If it looks like a duck and acts like a duck, call it a duck."
For me, if it "looks" traditional, it is.

That still leaves a lot of leeway, as pocket knives have been made for generations in all kinds of shapes and sizes. Build materials have included stainless (c1920), gutta percha (c 1860), hard synthetic rubber (c 1940's); Micarta (guess at 1930).

So to me, it's the overall appearance, as well as the absence of certain modern features.
 
All the electrician's knives that I bought (and subsequently lost :() from the mid '60s to the mid '90s had liner locks on the secondary. I always considered those knives to be traditionals. Is a Case Copperlock considered to be traditional?
 
I think a traditional is more about what it isn't instead of what it is.

Before trying to qualify what the "isn't" is I think it's easier to draw a line in time. I think the change from traditional to modern started in the 70's and then exploded in the 80's.
 
Danke42 said:
I think the change from traditional to modern started in the 70's and then exploded in the 80's.
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3fifty7 said:
I know it if I see it
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black mamba said:
If I recognize a knife from my youth, I think of it as traditional.
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This is about the best way I can describe it. I was born in the 50s in the US, grew up in the 60s. Knives started changing in the late 70s towards what we consider modern styles.

knarfeng said:
For me, if it "looks" traditional, it is.
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GE Jr said:
Is a Case Copperlock considered to be traditional?
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For the purposes of this forum, a Case Copperlock is, a Case Trapperlock is not. For me personally, a Case Trapperlock "looks" traditional, so it is, even if it has the evil thumbstud. The Lion Steel Barlows, which I think are great knives, don't look as traditional to me, but they are allowed here. As per the OP, what I think is traditional and what the forum allows do not perfectly align.
 
knarfeng said:
As a knife knut, then.
There is an old aphorism, "If it looks like a duck and acts like a duck, call it a duck."
For me, if it "looks" traditional, it is.

That still leaves a lot of leeway, as pocket knives have been made for generations in all kinds of shapes and sizes. Build materials have included stainless (c1920), gutta percha (c 1860), hard synthetic rubber (c 1940's); Micarta (guess at 1930).

So to me, it's the overall appearance, as well as the absence of certain modern features.
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This pretty much sums it up for me; I know it when I see it. I know that's not particularly helpful in answering the Mike's question, but when you try to say that certain features are or are not traditional, there's bound to be an exception.

There was an Imperial lockback folder that you could buy in just about any big box store in the '90s -- clip point, nail nick, black plastic handles with grooves running down the length of the handle and an Imperial logo in the center -- that I wouldn't consider a traditional knife, although it ticks most of the boxes and would probably be acceptable by the forum standards. (I know I had one at one time, but I have no idea what happened to it.)

Personally, I don't think of the Lionsteel Barlow as a traditional knife, more of a modern knife with traditional influences. That's not a criticism, it looks like a great knife, but I don't think of it as traditional.
 
btb01 said:
Personally, I don't think of the Lionsteel Barlow as a traditional knife, more of a modern knife with traditional influences. That's not a criticism, it looks like a great knife, but I don't think of it as traditional.
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That assessment is close to mine. Looks good. Doesn't have any prohibited features, but I kind of don't think of it as a "traditional" knife. Ditto for the Benchmade Proper.
Both those are "traditional" enough to allow discussion in this forum, but neither really checks all my boxes on a personal level.

But that's not to say I would not carry them. Some of my favorite knives are knives which stretch the boundaries of "traditional". The Manly folder and the Gerber Silver Knight series are cases in point. They are slipjoints, but I seldom post about them here because they are on the outskirts of the camp. The Manly absolutely breaks the bounds because it has a pocket clip. But I carry them frequently.
 
btb01 said:
..... Personally, I don't think of the Lionsteel Barlow as a traditional knife, more of a modern knife with traditional influences. That's not a criticism, it looks like a great knife, but I don't think of it as traditional.
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I think it's pretty traditional myself with modern materials. "Modern influences" is such a grey area. The Benchmade Proper is borderline but I'm not sure exactly why. I have a small Lionsteel Opera in stag and it is a traditional as far as I'm concerned.
 
There is certainly plenty of grey area, and I think a fair amount of personal preference that dictates what one person or another views as traditional.

For me, the Torx screws on the Lionsteel Barlow (in particular the screws on the bolster) make it looks more modern than traditional.
 
There is a lot of gray area. I believe there is more gray coming, as more manufactures start to combine old and new.
That's why I'll only post my Fallkniven PC in the traditional and modern pairings thread.
 
btb01 said:
This pretty much sums it up for me; I know it when I see it. I know that's not particularly helpful in answering the Mike's question, but when you try to say that certain features are or are not traditional, there's bound to be an exception.

There was an Imperial lockback folder that you could buy in just about any big box store in the '90s -- clip point, nail nick, black plastic handles with grooves running down the length of the handle and an Imperial logo in the center -- that I wouldn't consider a traditional knife, although it ticks most of the boxes and would probably be acceptable by the forum standards. (I know I had one at one time, but I have no idea what happened to it.)

Personally, I don't think of the Lionsteel Barlow as a traditional knife, more of a modern knife with traditional influences. That's not a criticism, it looks like a great knife, but I don't think of it as traditional.
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I know those imperial Ireland lockbacks, never had one but did a matching Skinner multitool combo with the same handle style.
Probably not super traditional, nor would the Buck 283 or 425 miniBuck.
 
This is something I often wonder, and I'm not sure if I have an answer or even an organized opinion.

While I could dissect a knife, and explain piece by piece why I think it should or shouldn't be considered traditional, I personally feel it's the knife as a whole that earns it's distinction.

I guess I might make my determination based on whether I think it looks like a person made it or if a machine made it.

I know that's ridiculous, and either type can be made either way...but it's just how I see it I guess.
 
knifeswapper said:
... as quality slipjoints have become harder and harder to source over the years ...
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This hasn't been my experience. With GEC, Case, Buck, Queen, Boker and others cranking 'em out, this is a fantastic time to be in the market for a quality, old school pocketknife. Not to mention that big auction site, where used knives with tons of life left in 'em are quite easy to purchase for a song.

-- Mark
 
mnblade said:
This hasn't been my experience. With GEC, Case, Buck, Queen, Boker and others cranking 'em out, this is a fantastic time to be in the market for a quality, old school pocketknife. Not to mention that big auction site, where used knives with tons of life left in 'em are quite easy to purchase for a song.

-- Mark
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I expect your criteria is a bit different than mine. Being able to find some here or there is a bit different than trying to "source" them for customers. GEC and Case are still viable, but most other brands have either went out of business; shot themselves with quality issues; or are not able to insure customers country of origin. I simply do not have the manpower to buy singles, clean them up, and post them one at a time on the site any more. Also, if I count my time at min wage, that puts me deep enough into each single to negate the value provided to customers.

My reference was to the ability to buy several of the same knife, produced with quality and a known derivation, and provide access to customers at a good value. I have a vault full of singles bought in collections that have sit for years because I can't get the time to post them.
 
Unless it's a friction folder, it needs a back spring. Liner locks with back springs are traditional, Walker liner locks are not. Lock backs are certainly traditional. There were plenty of "modern" materials used for vintage knives. I don't think that would rule out an otherwise traditional knife. Some designs aren't my cup of tea, but that doesn't mean they don't fit into the traditional genre.

Construction is an grey area, I prefer pinned but wouldn't have a hissy fit if discrete indexed screws were used (no Phillips, Torx, or Allen).
 
Sat on the fence for a day or so before responding to this. Not sure that I'm offering any perspective that is different from what has been posted, but I think the word "traditional" can be taken literally here. For a knife to be traditional, to me, that means it is produced according to a particular tradition. Less about the materials, and more about the spirit, the impetus behind the craft. At some point, I'm sure we'll be able to look back and assign a Walker liner lock, or a Reeve integral lock, to a particular tradition, too. Perhaps when we have pocket lasers to cut things. But right now, those knives are made with a different spirit - what I would call the spirit of advancing technology.

The knives I think of when I think "traditional" aren't particularly interested in advancing technology. A back spring or lock, some liners, handle slabs, and a blade on a pivot. Or, in the case of fixed blades, a blade designed for a specific style of cutting, with a handle to suit the work. Plenty of knives that are acceptable in this forum use G10; and some newer blade steels that really rock. Even some linerless shadow patterns show up.

The Lionsteel knife and the Benchmade Proper use washers, which to me, is what edges them into this grey area. The washers are an advancement of technology. Technically, so is the G10, but not really in the same way. The G10's technological advancement is more of an effect in my mind than it is a cause. It's still a handle slab, and might be a little more durable than micarta and definitely more than bone, but probably not delrin or certain stabilized hardwoods (in any practical measure). G10 handles just happen to be made of what we have currently on hand. (I don't intend to incite or participate in a "G10 is stronger than blahblah" debate here, either).

Introducing bronze washers to a pivot, though, is changing the mechanics and function, ostensibly to make the function of the tool "better, more advanced."

I have seen Canal Street and Queen knives that were the exact same in every regard to something that would be okay in this forum, except that they had pocket clips installed. I don't think that, 100 years ago, anyone made a knife with a cap lifter on it, either.

Something that strikes me, though, about "traditional" knives is the way they feel, and I think that has to do more with that they are handmade. They don't feel sterile. They don't feel like a "four easy payments of 29.95" new gadget that shows up on TV, like some modern folders do, I think because of how they are made.
 
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