What makes a lockback "Traditional"?

[FLymon]

A recent post by A.G. Russell had me thinking about my favorite lockback knife, my Spyderco Kopa.

Lockback? Yes.
Traditional? Not sure.
If this isn't traditional to you, why not?
And if it is, why?

Mods, I'm not sure if this belongs in General Knife Discussion or not, but I am very interested in this groups opinions. Thanks

 

[lambertiana]

The lockback design has been around for a long time, and is definitely a traditional in my book. The Kopa does differ from most "traditional" lockbacks in the overall design and one hand opening, so it is a modern design, too. Kind of a combination. It would be comfortable with either title.

I need to get one of those some day....

 

[Lion]

I agree that it is a hard question. The design of that one is contemporary, but then I've seen slipjoints with contemporary designs and materials excepted as traditional because they're slipjoints. Either way, that's a very nice knife.

Leo

 

[cj65]

I think of Traditional lockback as a Hunter or a Buck 110. Something grandpa would have carried. I do not think gramps toted a spyderco. Just my opinion. I do like Spyderco, Benchmade and Kershaw, but I am primarily a traditional slippie bone handle kinda dude. If I am wrong, my apologies in advance of course.

 

[knarfeng]

If I had to simplify the answer down to a single characteristic, I would say that to me a "traditional folder" means having a nail nick to open it.

 

[FLymon]

If I had to simplify the answer down to a single characteristic, I would say that to me a "traditional folder" means having a nail nick to open it.

Good answer. I hadn't thought about that.

What about the Scagel folders? No nail nick, just a hole.

 

[neeman]

If I had to simplify the answer down to a single characteristic, I would say that to me a "traditional folder" means having a nail nick to open it.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

Finally this means my Fallniven U2 is a Trad knife, and I can post pictures here!!!
And it has TWO nail nicks, one each side so it is super trad!!

 

[mdauben]

If this isn't traditional to you, why not?
And if it is, why?

It's certainly a very subjective decision, but looking at that particular knife:

• One handed opening? Not traditional.
• Pocket clip? Not traditional.
• Styling (here it get's very subjective). Not traditional.

I admit I tend to think of locking blades as not traditional, too, but this is of course harder to justify since they have been around for quite a while. Of course, I suppose a blade scholar might be able to find examples of all my "not traditional" features on knives from the 19th century, but like I said, its all very subjective.

 

[jackknife]

I think the cut off between traditional and modern, is if your granddaddy can look at it and recognize it as something that looks like what was around when he was a youg sprout.

 

[artmichalek]

I think of Traditional lockback as a Hunter or a Buck 110. Something grandpa would have carried.

That raises an interesting tangential question: How old does a design have to be to be traditional? The Buck 110 was introduced in 1962. Even if you're young your grandfather may have owned one, but it's not what he grew up with. I think of the 110 as traditional mostly because of the construction. Wood on brass held together with pins. The design itself is mid 20th century, but if you took a time machine back to 1800 the average Sheffield cutler could probably bang out a near exact copy (in carbon steel of course) with the techniques and tools common at the time.

 

[jackknife]

That raises an interesting tangential question: How old does a design have to be to be traditional? The Buck 110 was introduced in 1962. Even if you're young your grandfather may have owned one, but it's not what he grew up with. I think of the 110 as traditional mostly because of the construction. Wood on brass held together with pins. The design itself is mid 20th century, but if you took a time machine back to 1800 the average Sheffield cutler could probably bang out a near exact copy (in carbon steel of course) with the techniques and tools common at the time.

You are right, in that the Buck is something I would consider a traditional knife. There are other traditional locking blade knives around as well. The lockback design has been around over a hundred years, easy. John Wilkes Booth had a lockback folding dagger on him when he was killed at garrets barn. The Okapi design goes back to the navajas of 1700's Spain, and the humble K55 Mercator goes back almost to WW1.

But when you get into wierd blade shapes, injection moulded polymers, torx screw assemblys, it's no longer a traditional style knife.

It's kind of like that saying about art; I don't know how to describe it, but I know it when I see it.

 

[Blues]

Moving this one over to general knife discussion as it clearly includes knives of various styles.

Many lockbacks are traditional...the old "coke bottle hunter" by way of only one example. Many others are not. The fact that a knife utilizes a lockback is not what makes it traditional just as many fixed blades would not fall into the category either.

Lockbacks based upon traditional patterns (such as trappers) would clearly speak to their lineage. Skimming through the pages of Bernard Levine's guide (IV) would provide many examples.

 

[chanwahyaoh]

Does it have anything to do with the placement of the lock-lever on the handle?
I notice most older lockbacks have it toward the butt end of the handle, whereas many modern ones have it more in the center.

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

Id like to kind of put it in traditional. But then again, when i think of traditional i think of the buck 110. Clip point blade, nail nick, lockback. This one has a funky blade style and a spyderhole. I'm gunna go with no for right now lol.

 

[FLymon]

I think the cut off between traditional and modern, is if your granddaddy can look at it and recognize it as something that looks like what was around when he was a youg sprout.

Whos grandaddy? Mine (I'm 40), or my grandkids? A 54 year old grandfather today, could have bought a Spyderco lockback at the age of 26. Not exactly a sprout, but a relatively young father of a 8 year old.
What I mean to say is should we fix a traditional knife as designed before 1952, but after 1500? I picked these dates out of a hat, but I think you get the jist of it.

 

[a2d2]

i categorize knives in my mind the way music is categorized. oldies, classic, and modern, depending on age(of design, or pattern). the knives will move to their appropriate section as they enter a certain age group. times change. categories change.

 

[FLymon]

It's certainly a very subjective decision, but looking at that particular knife:

• One handed opening? Not traditional.
• Pocket clip? Not traditional.
• Styling (here it get's very subjective). Not traditional.

I admit I tend to think of locking blades as not traditional, too, but this is of course harder to justify since they have been around for quite a while. Of course, I suppose a blade scholar might be able to find examples of all my "not traditional" features on knives from the 19th century, but like I said, its all very subjective.

I agree it is very subjective, and in my opinion there is no "wrong" answer. That being said is a Case Mid Folding Hunter a traditional knife? It has a clip, and a thumbstud, and it was introduced in 2003 so maybe not.

 

[Nikx]

When you say "traditional knife" I think of a knife with two slabs of natural material (bone, stag, etc), may or may not have metal bolsters, one or multiple blades with nail nicks, slipjoint or lock back, in carbon steel.

Of course as many people have posted, this is very subjective, and who am I to say what is traditional and what isn't. Just my 2¢.

 

[Sep]

I think by the time I reach 60 a spyderco would be considered traditional.

 

[knarfeng]

I think the cut off between traditional and modern, is if your granddaddy can look at it and recognize it as something that looks like what was around when he was a youg sprout.

That's pretty old. My grandfather was born in 1873.