-
The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
What makes an Expert
- Thread starter greenie
- Start date
- Joined
- Oct 4, 1998
- Messages
- 529
OK- I'm an expert on experts, so listen up...
Stray sort of touched on this in his initial response to this thread.
Expertise can only be attained in a field where there are no variables. In a field where variables are present, the highest level anyone can reach is the point where he or she can give a very objective and informed opinion based on hypothesis, research and personal experimentation.
A good example of this would be Cliff.
I hang on Cliff's every word when he is reviewing knives because he is about as close to being an "expert" in his field as can possibly be attained. BUT- the fact of the matter is that we could get 10 people in ten different parts of the world to perform the same tests and we would have 10 different expert opinions. The varying opinions would be due to different climates, different materials used (wood, rope, etc...) and even varying quality control between the different knives being tested.
Corduroy made the statement that he could claim to be an expert on vertebrate evolution. Not true... he can merely claim to be an expert (cite all existing knowledge) on what is currently considered the most popular theories concerning the subject, hence what is being taught about the subject in institutions of learning. There is far too little known about evolution in general and the hypotheses change daily.
But, on the other hand.... isn't that what makes one an "expert"?
Remember these are just my expert opinions.
Orion
Stray sort of touched on this in his initial response to this thread.
Expertise can only be attained in a field where there are no variables. In a field where variables are present, the highest level anyone can reach is the point where he or she can give a very objective and informed opinion based on hypothesis, research and personal experimentation.
A good example of this would be Cliff.
I hang on Cliff's every word when he is reviewing knives because he is about as close to being an "expert" in his field as can possibly be attained. BUT- the fact of the matter is that we could get 10 people in ten different parts of the world to perform the same tests and we would have 10 different expert opinions. The varying opinions would be due to different climates, different materials used (wood, rope, etc...) and even varying quality control between the different knives being tested.
Corduroy made the statement that he could claim to be an expert on vertebrate evolution. Not true... he can merely claim to be an expert (cite all existing knowledge) on what is currently considered the most popular theories concerning the subject, hence what is being taught about the subject in institutions of learning. There is far too little known about evolution in general and the hypotheses change daily.
But, on the other hand.... isn't that what makes one an "expert"?
Remember these are just my expert opinions.
Orion
Cougar Allen
Buccaneer (ret.)
- Joined
- Oct 9, 1998
- Messages
- 75,777
Something Ghostsix posted on the HI forum recently seems to have some bearing here: "Going to school doesn't make you educated, any more than going to a barn makes you a horse."
I often hear people say, "I've got twenty years experience at this," -- but was it twenty years of experience? Or was it one year of experience repeated twenty times? Or only a week....
It doesn't matter what anyone claims for credentials on the net anyway; any 12-year-old can claim any credentials he wants to.... Read a few posts and you can soon sort out who knows what they're talking about and who doesn't, even in a field you knew nothing about to start with.
-Cougar Allen :{)
I often hear people say, "I've got twenty years experience at this," -- but was it twenty years of experience? Or was it one year of experience repeated twenty times? Or only a week....
It doesn't matter what anyone claims for credentials on the net anyway; any 12-year-old can claim any credentials he wants to.... Read a few posts and you can soon sort out who knows what they're talking about and who doesn't, even in a field you knew nothing about to start with.
-Cougar Allen :{)
- Joined
- Apr 27, 1999
- Messages
- 6,117
In the context of this forum I don't worry much about who is considered (or considers himself) an expert. I'm here for unalloyed opinions and annecdotes. I hope no one takes my words without a grain of salt.
On the other hand I took a look at my Webster's for the derivation of the word. It seems that one of the roots relates to trying things. And I may be reading into this, but it seems to have ideas in common with experiment. So I get a sense that someone who has actually run a bunch of properly constructed experiments is likely to become an expert. It may not be the definition, but I consider it likely to be true. At least experiments are much more likely to make you an expert than the sound of your own voice.
On the other hand I took a look at my Webster's for the derivation of the word. It seems that one of the roots relates to trying things. And I may be reading into this, but it seems to have ideas in common with experiment. So I get a sense that someone who has actually run a bunch of properly constructed experiments is likely to become an expert. It may not be the definition, but I consider it likely to be true. At least experiments are much more likely to make you an expert than the sound of your own voice.
If you break down the word "Expert" it makes
it quite simple-----
Ex -- A hasbeen
Spert -- A drip under pressure
Most who claim have an ego agenda....
goshawk
------------------
http://www.imt.net/~goshawk
Don't walk in tradition just because it feels good!!!!!
Romans 10:9,10
Hebrews 4:12-16
Psalm 91
it quite simple-----
Ex -- A hasbeen
Spert -- A drip under pressure
Most who claim have an ego agenda....
goshawk
------------------
http://www.imt.net/~goshawk
Don't walk in tradition just because it feels good!!!!!
Romans 10:9,10
Hebrews 4:12-16
Psalm 91
- Joined
- Oct 16, 1998
- Messages
- 1,697
Hello,
IMHO an expert should be at least a knifemaker or a former knifemaker.
Also an expert should be a knife user.
An expert in hunter knives should be an hunter.
An expert in combat knife should have deep knowledge and real experience in combat.
Now an expert can be sometimes wrong.
Just imagine how so-called experts can be wrong...
(When I see I guy like Kevin Macclung talking about combat I really laugh.
When I hear Bill Bagwell or Lynn thomson talking about the same topic. I listen carefully.)
Cheers,
JM
IMHO an expert should be at least a knifemaker or a former knifemaker.
Also an expert should be a knife user.
An expert in hunter knives should be an hunter.
An expert in combat knife should have deep knowledge and real experience in combat.
Now an expert can be sometimes wrong.
Just imagine how so-called experts can be wrong...
(When I see I guy like Kevin Macclung talking about combat I really laugh.
When I hear Bill Bagwell or Lynn thomson talking about the same topic. I listen carefully.)
Cheers,
JM
- Joined
- Oct 11, 1998
- Messages
- 707
An expert is someone from out of town.
Cliff Stamp
BANNED
- Joined
- Oct 5, 1998
- Messages
- 17,562
Orion :
If that was the case then no fields will allow experts. All work done involves sources of error and thus will see variation from one trial to the next. You can reduce them amount of variance in your results but it cannot be eliminated. Some of the most precise work done today is done by the people working in the standards labs. I have worked with them and was left basically in awe at how complete their work was. They will completely take apart and setup up all experimental equipment including full calibrations, multiple times in order to fully guage the uncertainties in their results. This being said, their results are not exact, nor do they claim them to be. They are just as precise as they can make them.
What is important is not how much the error is, but to know very well how large it is. If this is known, and only when this is the case, meaningful statements about cross validity can be made. This is one of the things that makes an expert, they will know very well the strength of the information they know and thus they can make quantitative comparisons based on it. The other thing that would make someone an expert is the ability to learn and grow. Sure you have to know the current information and how it applies to the standards as they exist now, but if you are unable to adapt and extrapolate this information in new situations your abilities are very limited compared to someone who can. Last of all, I have never met an expert who described himself as one.
As a couple of examples, Joe Talmadge is an expert on knife geometry. I have discussed details about cutting performance with him in the past and he was able to make educated guesses about the performance of knives he had never handled by extrapolating his experience. He was also able to discuss where variation could be seen and guage the probable magnitudes. As well note he is always involved in the latest work being done by people involved in this area and updating what he knows.
Bill Martino is an expert at many things, khukuris, moderating and selling his products. These things are all closely linked together. He has assembled a wealth of information about khukuris from being involved with the makers for quite some time, this information is always growing because Bill encourages his customers to work with their blades and is always interested in hearing about them. This is closely linked to why he is so good at selling them. You quickly develop a sense of trust because he is as open an honest about them as can be. He works well as a moderator for precisely the same reasons. I asked him well over a year ago if he would describe the abilities of his khukuris to me before he bought one, his reply was that I was better off talking to his customers to insure an unbiased approach. This was one of the things that impressed me most. It is the same attitude that makes him an expert at moderation, his easy going attitude promotes the flow of information and the feeling of oppression is never there.
-Cliff
[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 29 September 1999).]
If that was the case then no fields will allow experts. All work done involves sources of error and thus will see variation from one trial to the next. You can reduce them amount of variance in your results but it cannot be eliminated. Some of the most precise work done today is done by the people working in the standards labs. I have worked with them and was left basically in awe at how complete their work was. They will completely take apart and setup up all experimental equipment including full calibrations, multiple times in order to fully guage the uncertainties in their results. This being said, their results are not exact, nor do they claim them to be. They are just as precise as they can make them.
What is important is not how much the error is, but to know very well how large it is. If this is known, and only when this is the case, meaningful statements about cross validity can be made. This is one of the things that makes an expert, they will know very well the strength of the information they know and thus they can make quantitative comparisons based on it. The other thing that would make someone an expert is the ability to learn and grow. Sure you have to know the current information and how it applies to the standards as they exist now, but if you are unable to adapt and extrapolate this information in new situations your abilities are very limited compared to someone who can. Last of all, I have never met an expert who described himself as one.
As a couple of examples, Joe Talmadge is an expert on knife geometry. I have discussed details about cutting performance with him in the past and he was able to make educated guesses about the performance of knives he had never handled by extrapolating his experience. He was also able to discuss where variation could be seen and guage the probable magnitudes. As well note he is always involved in the latest work being done by people involved in this area and updating what he knows.
Bill Martino is an expert at many things, khukuris, moderating and selling his products. These things are all closely linked together. He has assembled a wealth of information about khukuris from being involved with the makers for quite some time, this information is always growing because Bill encourages his customers to work with their blades and is always interested in hearing about them. This is closely linked to why he is so good at selling them. You quickly develop a sense of trust because he is as open an honest about them as can be. He works well as a moderator for precisely the same reasons. I asked him well over a year ago if he would describe the abilities of his khukuris to me before he bought one, his reply was that I was better off talking to his customers to insure an unbiased approach. This was one of the things that impressed me most. It is the same attitude that makes him an expert at moderation, his easy going attitude promotes the flow of information and the feeling of oppression is never there.
-Cliff
[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 29 September 1999).]
