What mill would you recommend?

Fish30114

Fish30114

Joined
Jan 5, 2014
Messages
1,495
I've always been a guy to figure out what I needed long before I did need it, and research and shop before I purchased. Sooooo, it is my goal to build folders someday in the future and what I believe is to do them well a fellow needs a milling machine. So I am looking for input on what mill I should look at for Knife duties.

Any input/recommendations appreciated.
 
Fish30114 said:
I've always been a guy to figure out what I needed long before I did need it, and research and shop before I purchased. Sooooo, it is my goal to build folders someday in the future and what I believe is to do them well a fellow needs a milling machine. So I am looking for input on what mill I should look at for Knife duties.

Any input/recommendations appreciated.
Click to expand...

I have and still do build lots of folders without using a mill. Just saying.
 
Get the largest and most stiff mill that you can afford, be it an antique or whatnot. If buying used, look for one with a lot of tooling included, as tooling up a mill is more expensive than the mill itself usually. I'm not a big fan of R8 because R8 doesn't clamp very well, and no one really makes R8 tool holders. Using a tool holder instead of a collet to hold your milling bits is much more secure and less likely to chatter.

If you can find an old brown and sharp, van norman, garvin, gorton, etc they can many times be had for less than a new mini-mill and are much better machines
 
Justin.Mercier said:
If you can find an old brown and sharp, van norman, garvin, gorton, etc they can many times be had for less than a new mini-mill and are much better machines
Click to expand...
We have three Van Norman mills and they are beasts. It is fun to watch 1" end mill make a .250" pass in 6-4 titanium. The last VN we bought a few months ago for $1,300. It is in nice condition and works great.

We bought the toy LMS referenced. It broke in less than two weeks. We've extensively modified it since (and spent a bunch of money) to get it to work.

Definitely watch for older machines. They are a much better value.

Chuck
 
I got my 1906 Garvin horizontal mill with independent vertical head AND a whole mess of tooling (which is good because it's an odd B&S #10 taper which used to be common pre WW2 but is now hard to find tool holders and arbors and the like for) for 300$
Had to buy a large angle plate to tram the head properly (machined surface was built on the head originally to get it perpendicular with the table, but i dont have a machinst's square large enough) but after that... it just works >_<

millingmachine.jpg
 
It really depends on what the mill will be used for.

The biggest job a mill does in our shop is cut slots in bowie knife guards, or cut nail nicks.

I used a 26 pound Sherline to do this for over 12 years and the little machine is still like new.

A surface grinder is way more useful to me for folder making.
 
Justin.Mercier said:
Get the largest and most stiff mill that you can afford, be it an antique or whatnot. If buying used, look for one with a lot of tooling included, as tooling up a mill is more expensive than the mill itself usually. I'm not a big fan of R8 because R8 doesn't clamp very well, and no one really makes R8 tool holders. Using a tool holder instead of a collet to hold your milling bits is much more secure and less likely to chatter.

If you can find an old brown and sharp, van norman, garvin, gorton, etc they can many times be had for less than a new mini-mill and are much better machines
Click to expand...

I think the import ones are commonly available and cheap


http://www.use-enco.com/1/1/32449-interstate-cnc-end-mill-holder-sets.html

http://www.shars.com/3-8-precision-r8-end-mill-holder

http://www.busybeetools.com/products/end-mill-holder-1-2in-r8.html
 
Justin.Mercier said:
Get the largest and most stiff mill that you can afford, be it an antique or whatnot.
Click to expand...

This is my thought, because If I get something bigger than I need for my personal use this opens a door to make money in the event someone around me needs something machined. When I get the money and am in the market my hopes are to find an old bridgeport as that is what I learned on and have always used.
 
Fish,
Although you are specing a mill for folders, be aware that one you have a mill the door opens to use it for projects you have not yet contemplated. I had a heavy duty geared bench mill that was good for a while, but it really struggled with "deep" cuts. I ended up mothballing it and picking up a Millrite knee mill which handles bigger jobs muc much better. If I had the room in the shop I would have gone with a Bridgeport sized mill, hands down. Stick with R8.
 
Good intel so far folks, thanks--Interesting there's a couple fans of R8 tapers and a few that say stay away from R8...I'm only familiar with M-2 and JT 3 tapers in my lathe and drill press.

Willie, thanks for that link, that is somewhat encouraging, because I could afford that Mill, and probably double that amount for tooling--it will definitely be in the hopper for consideration. The few Bridgeports I've found are way expensive, if someone has a tip on where to look for good solid used ones let me know--also I'm handicapped and dealing with really heavy stuff is a challenge for me, I typically have to hire it done--in fact I just got my second grinder in--a NorthRidge tools, and it's set in the basement a week not put on my bench, cause I haven't been able to get any help.--So I understand the 'get the stoutest one you can get' advice, I just hope I can pick the spot where it won't need to be moved in the future!!
 
Look for local companies that move safes, pianos, and vending machines. It's well worth the money. I used a business like that for my surface grinder and it was painless. They had the proper equipment and experience moving heavy objects.
 
i think for most jobs you would be happy with an rf-45 type machine. hell I've owned many mills, bigger and smaller and i run the hell outta that 45. its a great machine.
 
Round column is much less convenient than square column. With a square column benchtop mill or a knee mill with dovetailed slideways, you can change height when changing tasks or cutter, without losing your index. Typically having a knee to change elevation with is more precise and more rigid than only having the quill like on a mill/drill.
Bridgeports are nice, so are Tree mills, Lagun mills, Cinci Toolmasters, or Index/Wells-Index mills. They are all similar to Bridgeport more or less, in that they are vertical knee design, and with heads that nod and pivot, as well as a quill that can power feed, crank, or be used manually as a drill press. Power feed is nice to have, as is DRO.
I have an Index 645 knee mill from the 60's. A big solid beast that will take heavy cuts, and has x power feed. No digital readout, which would be nice.
It has a B&S #9 taper spindle, which is archaic but I have collets for it, which will do 95% of what I'll ever need. R-8 is more common, and grips well too. It seems picky to me to get hung up on R-8 for theoretically gripping less tightly than some other methods- they work quite well in my experience, and hold cutters up to the capacity of the machine.
If you buy a used mill, look for backlash in the feedscrews. A typical range is 10-30 thousandths for a nice tight screw, and up to .100" for a worn one. If it's a lot, that tells you the mill has seen hard use, or may have lubrication issues. Often the screw will be more worn in the center of table travel, then as cranked toward either end, will tighten up. That's because most of a mill's daily operations tend to occur near the center of the table.

Some mills have a split bronze nut for the feedscrews that can be adjusted to take up some backlash as it wears. Some will need to be replaced.
If you have a digital readout, it is easier to deal with having a pretty worn leadscrew- the DRO still tells you where you are or how far it is to a certain feature when you want to get back to it. How worn of a mill you'll buy depends on how optimistic/eager you are, or how much you are willing to work around idiosyncrasies in a machine.

I've had a JET-16 round column mill in the past, which was like a frustrating toy compared to my Index or any Bridgeport I've worked on. But, I love big old cast iron machines.
 
You got to know your limitations.

I have used a HF mini mill for years making thousands of parts in aluminum, brass, copper.

If you need to hog in steel and titanium then definitely get the biggest mill you can afford and move.

If it is just being used for knifemaking then a mini mill will do the job
 
Remember, you can always do smaller work on a full sized knee mill, but you can't really do large work on a mini/benchtop mill. Granted, for most knife makers, the majority of work tends to stay in the "smaller" category, but when you do need to do that odd large job, it really pays off to have a larger machine. I went through the whole process of researching mills a good while back, and originally had intended to get some kind of mini mill and upgrade as I went along. After running through all of the pros and cons of every one of the mills that always pop up in these threads (HF mini, LMS, various round column, then various square columns, grizzly, precision matthews, etc.....) I finally decided that the only option FOR ME, was a full size knee mill, and I don't regret the decision one bit.

Now, besides my 2x72, my mill has become one of the most used tools in the shop.

Keep an eye out for auctions and deals on craigslist, and even eBay. Try to find one with a DRO, though it's not completely necessary, it does really add a whole other dimension to using the machine. If you can find a machine that comes with some basic tooling and a vise, even better. Just make sure the machine is not terribly abused, and plan on spending about as much on tooling as you do on the machine, especially if it doesn't come with much.
 
i have both a HF mini mill and added a BP a few years back they are both really useful in the shop. both use R8 tooling if looking at any other tooling i think some BP type mills have been made with cat30 or 40 tool holders
my BP is a small table that is a nice size in my shop but i also found out it wasa stock built as a high speed head (top spindle speed is 5600rpm) and for a knife maker wanting to run small bits its great
paid 1500 for the BP with a vice and 3 collets (not a big deal since i had a full set of R8 tool holders ) i run the mini way more then the BP but now i am better able to task the work to the right tool for the job rather then make the mini work harder then it should. other thing i need to note is the mini mill is the only "drill press" i have even owned
 
butcher_block said:
... other thing i need to note is the mini mill is the only "drill press" i have even owned
Click to expand...

That is important as well. As a drill press it has become invaluable. Being variable speed and precise is really a big PLUS.

I also use mine for setting Kydex Rivets :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top