What model is this?

orca8589

orca8589

Joined
Jan 27, 2007
Messages
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What Kabar is this? I've seen a few similar knives in the antique stores here, but not with serrations like this one. Stacked leather handle; wide hammer butt; blade appears to be blued; small guard; I don't know if the blade was originally a recurve or if it's from sharpening.

Kabarunknownmodel006.jpg

Kabarunknownmodel002.jpg


Serrations:
Kabarunknownmodel018.jpg

Kabarunknownmodel017.jpg


Tang stamp:
Kabarunknownmodel021.jpg


I'm not very familiar with Kabars, and after looking online and here I haven't seen one like this with serrations. (I could have overlooked it, I'm sure.) Any info or help would be appreciated.

~Chris
 
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Not sure, but I know Toooj will know. That is an unusual looking Kabar, one I have not seen before, and I am some kinda curious now.

It almost looks like a Pilot Survival knife style blade, but with the MKI handle and blade length.

I'm gonna keep my eye on this one, this should be good.

Moose
 
The serrations are cut into the blade almost perfectly, so I don't think they are after-market mod's. In the fifth picture, they seem to have a small step and then progress to a rounded tooth. They're made for a 'pull-cut', from what I can tell. I'm really wanting to try them on a 1x4, but I didn't want to mess with the knife until I find out here if it's something special. It's rock solid and tight all the way around, no rot on the leather handle, no loose guard. It would be a great little camp knife.

It's obviously used, and it has a handmade left-side sheath that appears to be suede leather and deer skin. I've heard that the old Cattaraugus 225Q had a left-hand sheath because a sidearm was carried on the right side. Maybe that's what the previous owner of this knife did: gun on the strong-side, knife on the off-side; or maybe he/she was just left handed. Who knows, but interesting anyway.

I'll wait and see what "Toooj the Wise" says. ;)
 
I was covered up and KA-BAR is whoopin' some inventory ass right now, so, I know they are busy as can be right now.

I'll give Toooj a call tomorrow and have him stop in, if he don't show up already.

Moose
 
moosez45 said:
I was covered up and KA-BAR is whoopin' some inventory ass right now, so, I know they are busy as can be right now.

I'll give Toooj a call tomorrow and have him stop in, if he don't show up already.

Moose
Click to expand...

Maybe they'll find some goodies and toys they can send to everyone here. You think, maybe? :D ;)

~Chris
 
sure looks like a pilot survival style... mmm...
 
I called a left a message with Toooj, like I said, inventory time, so......

He'll get us some answers. I have to agree, it looks like a Pilot Survival knife, Kabar style.

Moose
 
orca,

Sorry for the late answer. As Moose said...inventory and then on the road for a show in sunny Syracuse, NY.
You have a KA-BAR Model 598. The 1920-30s 598s had colored fiber washers and shaped aluminum butt cap, brass guard and a slightly differnt blade shape. Your model is a 1940s version that has been the victom of wartime austerity. (Steel butt cap and guard, no fiber washers, no swedges) These were very similar to the Navy Mark Is and many went to war. (The KA-BAR WWII Mark Is had a different blade shape but looks very similar)
The saw teeth have been added. (Nice milling job) During the 1940s that type of saw mill was rare and the shape and complexity of the teeth is indicative of a modern job.
The 1940s 598 blade had an extended belly but no recurve. Your recurve is a result of continued sharpening.
Not much monetary value but you have an excellent user.
Hope this helps.

Best Regards,

Paul Tsujimoto
Sr Eng
Prod Dev and Qual
KA-BAR Knives
 
I looked up the Ka-bar 598 online trying to get some history on it. Found an add in the January 1937 issue of Boy's Life Magazine on page 37 for the Official Boy Scouts knife Ka-Bar Model 598 from Union Cutlery. The Blade looks the same sans mods and use, but the handle is different. Has finger grooves and a different butt. I love to see the changes that a knife goes through over the years. If anyone is interested in seeing the add, check out google books online. Knife went for $1.75 in that add.
 
Tooj, as we used to say growing up (in NC), you've got a place at our table any time. Thanks for taking the time out of your schedule & putting the info up here.

I kind of figured the saw teeth to be factory made, but in looking at the blade spine under magnification last night, I figured they might have been added later. From a distance they look almost perfectly consistent in shape and spacing; proportionally, they're just the right size for the blade height & shape. Under magnification, small imperfections do start to stand out, though. Whoever put them on the blade was a skilled mill operator or machinist.

I kind of figured the recurve wasn't factory either, as I've never seen a similar piece with that kind of grind. (I've spent enough time in Bernard Levine's forum here to be skeptical of almost everything. :p) However, whoever sharpened this one was very good & consistent at it, as the blade edge is evenly worn from the tang down the length to the tip.

It's a very cool piece, and will go well with my Cattaraugus 225Q. I'm hooked on old beater/users now.

~Chris
 
wildmanh said:
I looked up the Ka-bar 598 online trying to get some history on it. Found an add in the January 1937 issue of Boy's Life Magazine on page 37 for the Official Boy Scouts knife Ka-Bar Model 598 from Union Cutlery. The Blade looks the same sans mods and use, but the handle is different. Has finger grooves and a different butt. I love to see the changes that a knife goes through over the years. If anyone is interested in seeing the add, check out google books online. Knife went for $1.75 in that add.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info; The cover of Levine's Guide to Knives and their Values (Vol. 4) has a Remington that seems to be very similar in shape and proportions to the 1920's-30's era Kabar 598's that Toooj mentions. "Wartime austerity" certainly describes my 598.

~Chris
 
wildman,

You are correct. During the war many things changed due to materials, manufacturing costs, etc. Remember, KA-BAR was a small factory compared to Cattaraugas, Case, Camillus and the Imperial Companies. The war placed high priorities on the contract knives; TL-29, 1219C (USMC and Mark II), machetes, dive knife, etc. Features such as colored fibers (Rubber), aluminum, finger grooves (time), swedges (time) all got lost. Even the red fibers and the beautiful blued blades on the first USMC F/U knives got nixed as the war went on.
KA-BAR had approx 100 people during the war while Camillus had close to 1000 (IIRC).

Orca,

LOL. I love BRL's forum. I learn a tremendous amount from the regulars...And there is always "lively"discourse on many topics.
You still have a great knife. The best thing to do is use it.
Hope this helps.

Best Regards,

Paul Tsujimoto
Sr Eng
Prod Dev and Qual
KA-BAR Knives
 
Paul, thanks for the information. I figured it had to be something like that. Always love the history lessons. :) Makes me want to hunt down more old knives.

Toooj said:
wildman,

You are correct. During the war many things changed due to materials, manufacturing costs, etc. Remember, KA-BAR was a small factory compared to Cattaraugas, Case, Camillus and the Imperial Companies. The war placed high priorities on the contract knives; TL-29, 1219C (USMC and Mark II), machetes, dive knife, etc. Features such as colored fibers (Rubber), aluminum, finger grooves (time), swedges (time) all got lost. Even the red fibers and the beautiful blued blades on the first USMC F/U knives got nixed as the war went on.
KA-BAR had approx 100 people during the war while Camillus had close to 1000 (IIRC).
Click to expand...
 
Makes me want to hunt down more old knives
Click to expand...

Wildman,

gets into your blood, doesn't it?
Can't think of any better hobby.

Best Regards,


Paul Tsujimoto
Sr Eng
Prod Dev and Qual
KA-BAR Knives
 
wildmanh said:
Official Boy Scouts knife Ka-Bar Model 598 from Union Cutlery.
Click to expand...
Boyscouts, fixed blades? HWAT?!? :D
Seriously, I knew that there was a time when the scouts were allowed to use fixed blades, and now even the leaders get dirty looks for them. (I still carry a bk11 anyway)
What went wrong? It's kinda like abercrombie and fitch being an outdoor store years ago...
 
thatotherguy said:
Boyscouts, fixed blades? HWAT?!? :D
Seriously, I knew that there was a time when the scouts were allowed to use fixed blades, and now even the leaders get dirty looks for them. (I still carry a bk11 anyway)
What went wrong? It's kinda like abercrombie and fitch being an outdoor store years ago...
Click to expand...

Not to put a political turn to this thread, but several years ago I talked to a veteran Scouter about the issue. He had been Scouting for 60+ years, our Pack Commissioner for two decades. A huge wealth of knowledge and history. According to him, at least in our area, the move from fixed blades to folders was more about utility and weight than anything else. Rules & regs came in later.

I had carried a Buck 119 on a camping trip. In his day, especially after WWII, older boys carried hunting knives: Remingtons, Marble's, Westerns, etc.; and sometimes even carried Kabar C/U's. (Apparently available on the surplus market after the war?) Younger boys often carried smaller skinning knives, and knew how to use them.

All carried the standard four-blade Scout utility pocket knife. To give you an indication of how things change, in his time they used the can opener several times a day when camping and/or hiking; nowadays, the boys like SAK's for the scissors, because they cut open more pouches (freeze-dried foods) than opening cans. Go figure.

I still carry my Mora with me in a neck sheath, and my BK7 is in my bag close by at all times. On our last trip out, I noticed a couple of fixed blades peeking out from under the jackets of a couple of the adult volunteers with us. Made me feel all warm & fuzzy inside. :)

My new/old 598 is definitely going with me on our next camping trip. I think it'll be snow camping.

~Chris
 
Good for you!
Apperantly everybody in the local troop except me and the scoutmaster HATE fixed blades. I have to keep my 11 hidden in the pack to not get dirty looks, and the ex- Marine scoutmaster just gave up.

Oh yeah- we still use can openers every day, but it's usually mine, cuz I'm the only one with a leatherman/ p38 anymore...
 
thatotherguy said:
Good for you!
Apperantly everybody in the local troop except me and the scoutmaster HATE fixed blades. I have to keep my 11 hidden in the pack to not get dirty looks, and the ex- Marine scoutmaster just gave up.

Oh yeah- we still use can openers every day, but it's usually mine, cuz I'm the only one with a leatherman/ p38 anymore...
Click to expand...

On our last trip, not one person (fifteen boys, twelve adults) brought an axe or a hatchet. :rolleyes: Really funny, Abbott & Costello-like conversation among fifteen boys along the lines of:

"I thought you brought one!"
"No! You were supposed to bring it!"
"It wasn't my job this time! Where's yours?!"
"I can't find mine! Mom did something with it, and didn't put it back!"
"What the !!#@!$%! is mom going to do with your hatchet?!"
"I don't know! Leave me alone! Go find your own wood!"
"Go get dad! He always has his axe!"
"I asked dad! He thought we had it! He says if it's lost, we're grounded!"
Long, whiney, moan - "Awwwww maaaannnnnn . . . "

Then followed a major discussion on being prepared, especially with the older boys (leaders). I was the only one with a knife large enough [not legal according to policy] to cut fuzz sticks and kindling. No batoning, but fuzz sticks & sap wood. Lots of smiles after the fire was started, and I got to show the boys what a good knife was all about, without a bunch of weird looks from the adults. :thumbup:

There was a lot of interest in my BK7, and I got to share the tragic history of Camillus, and how Ethan was working with Kabar to get the Beckers back on the market. A lot of the adults knew about Kabar, and their curiosity was piqued a little, I think. Sadly, the only adults who knew about Camillus were the ones who had been Scouts themselves, and had Camillus Scout knives when they were young.

As much as I like the BK7, the smaller bladed knives I bring (Cattaraugus 225Q, Mora, etc.) are just more handy for what we need to do. I've got to get a BK2 to go with my 598.

~Chris
 
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