What really dulls your knives?

Opening bags of extreme doritos.

Not the regular ones, the extreme doritos I find takes a really big toll on my S30V blades.
 
Cardboard and knots in wood. I'll never cut through sandpaper again (rounded my tip with just one cut through a sheet of 240), which was just plain stupid. Honestly, the things that damage my edges is usually my own fault, like dropping the knife or not being careful of where that cut ends, like slipping onto a metal surface or something at the end of a cut.

If you avoid cutting through cardboard and other highly abrasive mediums and look out for what's in the background of your cut, you'll be fine. Also, try not to drop or bump your edge into things like the kitchen sink and whatnot.
 
Most folks are probably familiar with edge retention tests where someone makes hundreds of consistent cuts through manilla rope, cardboard, or some such material to test how long a certain steel will hold its edge. Recently, though, I've been questioning the relevance of those tests to my particular knife needs,.

Something I've noticed about using my knives at work is that my knives rarely ever get dull from making repeated clean cuts through a consistent medium. Instead, it seems that my knives get dull almost exclusively from brushing against, say, a staple that I didn't notice, a knot or old nail in a piece of wood, or some sand and dirt that had worked itself into a piece of rope.

This realization caused me to question my need for a steel with really exceptional edge retention - For me, it would seem that it doesn't matter too much whether a steel can make 50 or 5000 passes through a sheet of cardboard before getting dull. Practically speaking, it seems like there always comes a point where I run into one staple or other unseen obstacle and my knife's edge gets dull, no matter how fancy the blade steel. Thus, while I notice a major difference between low end steels (420, 8c13 etc.) and mid-to-high end steels (14c28, 154CM etc.), I don't think that I personally would benefit from the added edge retention capabilities of super steels like CPM-M4, Bohler M390, ZDP-189, etc.

This is just something I've been thinking about over the past couple of weeks, but I'd like to hear your thoughts. For your applications, do you folks find that there is a point where you no longer see a real benefit to more advanced steels, or do very high end steels have real practical benefits for you?

If one uses a knife in an environment where it is likely that staples, nails, or very abrasive materials which would challenge the edge will be encountered, then the higher end, high performance steels are worth it IMO.

If all you use your knife for is the occasional letter opening, nail cleaning, or thread cutting, then just about any steel will do.

One thing folks should look out for though; if you buy a higher end steel, that shouldn't need sharpening so often, then often folks go TOO long without sharpening and allow that hard, abrasion resistant steel to become a little TOO dull. Then they have to work harder to get the dang thing sharp.

It pays to touch up the edge regularly no matter what kind of steel your knife of choice is made of.

Andy
 
Yes cardboard and some heavy fabrics like canvas or carpet backing will dull a knife pretty quickly.

Currently I rotate 3 knives carrying at work.

Para 2 S90V

Para 2 S30V

Military CTS XHP
 
I like to filet grapefruit. 420HC is good for 1 1/2 grapefruits. Talonite will do 30+.
 
Scraping burrs off metal parts at work. :rolleyes: Any suggestions as to a steel which will hold up to THAT.
 
Plastic. The kind used in those black corrugated drain pipes. We use the stuff by the hundreds of feet when we need to clean up stone spills, and I've watched half a dozen people try to cut it with the stupid, dinky little utility knives that are "recommended" by the guys down in the office. I wait until they get frustrated, then go over and rip through the piping section with my folder.

I don't know what steel for sure CRKT used in the Greg Lightfoot M1. I imagine it was an AUS8 clone. It does the job pretty well, and considering the conditions my knife gets exposed to (yes, including the occaisional contact with metal), I would not want to use or abuse some expensive knife.

I keep a combination stone in my locker. The "fine" side is probably 240 grit or so. Normal touch up on the M1 is about once a month, but after a day of cutting that plastic, I end up with a real dull knife. Takes maybe five minutes at the most to get the edge back, and the relatively coarse grit produces a slightly "toothy" edge that bites in well.

From what I've observed, there seem to be steels that respond better to a coarse stone. Quite simply, there is only so much "sharpness" to be gotten out of them. It may be that my sharpening technique isn't very good, but it works for me.
 
I mostly cut fiberglass tape at work and it does a real number on the edge of my Emerson. Then again I have found Emersons to not have the greatest edge retention (154-cm is not my favorite steel).

Kaleb
 
I cut rescue/climbing rope and lot of tape and gauze as well as some cardboard. I really like S30V a lot. Seems to hold an edge as well as anything else and is easy to sharpen.

For unique use I carry a Spyderco Pacific if I know I'm going to cut a lot of rope and have found that H1 has excellent edge retention when it's serrated.

Just got a CRK Small Sebenza and Spyderco Native in S35V so I'm curious as to how well that works in the long run.

One other thing I've noticed, in the field I've carried SAK and Leatherman tools for years and while the blades don't hold an edge nearly as well as other steels they are super easy to sharpen to a shaving edge with a pocket stone.
 
If you avoid cutting through cardboard and other highly abrasive mediums and look out for what's in the background of your cut, you'll be fine. Also, try not to drop or bump your edge into things like the kitchen sink and whatnot.[/QUOTE]

I think it would be hard for the average knife nut to avoid cardboard . I don't know about you but I send and receive 2-3 small/medium flat rate boxs a week . LOL + I love to recycle !
 
I have know idea whats in EVA foam for rod building, puzzle floor mats ect, but it will dull an edge fast. you would never think after the first satisfying cuts, but after that everything goes down hill fast on the edge. Try it its mind boggling. There must be micro silicates in it or something.
 
The dreaded wire edge certainly plays its part. I feel like I am good at sharpening... My first high end steel was BG42 around 10 years ago. Even though I've had a LOT of practice, removing the burr after sharpening is still puzzling. My preferred method is to sharpen the edge bevel from the shoulder to the edge @ 30degs inclusive, getting the knife SHARP then removing the burr with light 40deg inclusive strokes. This typically gives me an edge that won't roll with plenty of reasonable use.

These past few months I've been weighing my s30v/s35vn knives against each other. 1 CRK in s30v, 2 CRKs in s35vn, 1 Strider in s35vn, 2 Striders in s30v & 2 Spydercos in s30v. My results have been very interesting. ALL of the knives listed above have been sharpened as stated above. The Spydies & Striders are practically painless. The CRKs really require special attention. Currently I'm attributing it to the lower heat treat. The higher HTs seem to just remove material from the edge, leaving a sturdy, sharp edge. The CRKs just won't have it. The edge really wants to be tooooo thin. I either have to take the edge of the edge of the edge to around 45degs inclusive to remove the burr or use the method above, then carve some wood, revealing the wire edge, then remove it at 40degs.

That said, I pretty much dislike sharpening... But at the same time, I DO carry a knife & I really enjoy using it. I enjoy thinking about what's going on in the process of all aspects of knife carry/use. I've been surprised at things that dull my carefully sharpened blade & I've been surprised at things that don't effect it.

Like others have said... The ultimate test in edge retention & your sharpening ability within reason is fiberglass insulation.
 
I noticed the same thing that you did. Once upon a time I liked very hard steels, but then I noticed the same thing as you. My knife never got dull in actual normal use, only when it hit something hard. And when you're OCD about edges like I am and the knife is in blue steel at 64 HRC, sharpening was a PITA. That's when I started focusing on toughness over hardness, I found that simple carbon steels at moderate hardnesses are what I prefer. My favorite steel so far is a soft low-mid 50s hrc Saw blade steel from Blind Horse Knives, in my honest opinion it performed better in actual use than my s30v Buck vantage or any of my "higher end" Japanese knives.

The exception to this though is in the kitchen, where high hardness is king.
 
And have you noted whether your edge is chipped or rolled when you run it into a staple? Because it sounds like CPM-3V might be better suited for accidental run-ins with metal.

Most of the steels I use seem to roll rather than chip. While I do run across steels that are prone to chipping, I tend to avoid them.

Good post topic DM.

I really have no problems sharpening on a regular basis so extreme edge holding and having super tough steels that are more difficult to sharpen to me is not something I prefer. I'd rather have a knife that cuts pretty decently through most stuff , but is not a pita to sharpen.

I find cardboard dulls my knife quickly ; so does anything with dirt on it. This includes dirty sticks in the bush. Carpet , drywall , thick plastic ...those sorts of things. Hitting a piece of metal is something I really try to avoid unless I'm doing it with a knife specifically for a reason. Then I know the edge will definately suffer. I'll only do it with a beater knife if I can help it ( opening a can , sheet metal , etc..)

But sometimes the knife you have on you is just pressed into a needed situation and you just do it no matter what the medium is. I'd much rather chew up an edge that I can easily restore , compared to some super steel that will take me hours on the stones ( or worse , blow a big chunk out of the edge) Just my .02

Thanks for the input! Those qualities you mentioned seem to be what I'm leaning towards for my work knives as well at the moment - something that can be restored to a good working edge with a few licks of a pocket stone and doesn't require a whole lot of time and effort. I've been using a knife in 14c28 almost exclusively for a little over a month now, but I occasionally use my BD30P Manix as well. While I do prefer the 14c28 because it's easy to touch up, I have stopped using my SAKs and Leatherman at work because the steel is a little too easy to deform - while it is pretty soft and really easy to put an edge on, it gets so dull that it takes forever to restore no matter how I go about it. Maybe there's a kind of 'sweet spot' I haven't found yet...

If one uses a knife in an environment where it is likely that staples, nails, or very abrasive materials which would challenge the edge will be encountered, then the higher end, high performance steels are worth it IMO.

If all you use your knife for is the occasional letter opening, nail cleaning, or thread cutting, then just about any steel will do.

One thing folks should look out for though; if you buy a higher end steel, that shouldn't need sharpening so often, then often folks go TOO long without sharpening and allow that hard, abrasion resistant steel to become a little TOO dull. Then they have to work harder to get the dang thing sharp.

It pays to touch up the edge regularly no matter what kind of steel your knife of choice is made of.

Andy

That is an interesting perspective - coupled with jimnolimit's demonstration of CPM-M4's capabilities is kind of contrary to what I had thought about a lot of the fancier steels around right now. I guess I made a pretty big assumption that, even though some steels boast fantastic edge retention, no knife edge could contend with steel-on-steel contact like that. It would seem that I definitely have a thing or two to learn about some of these steels. Your point about touching-up an edge regularly is something that doesn't normally occur to me - I tend to only sharpen my knives once they get noticeably dull.

Thanks to everyone for sharing your perspectives on this - KEEP EM COMING! :thumbup: :) Thanks especially to jimnolimit for the demonstration - that really gave me something to think about.
 
but I occasionally use my BD30P Manix as well.


Thanks especially to jimnolimit for the demonstration - that really gave me something to think about.


i haven't done any crazy cutting with my BD30P manix2, but edge was still shaving sharp after cutting a bunch of cardboard (unlike S30V). i also find that BD30P sharpens up easier and takes a finer edge than S30V.


your welcome :) .
 
Whoa, looks like I need to get some CPM-M4. I always wind up running my edge against something hard even if I check where I'm cutting first.
 
i haven't done any crazy cutting with my BD30P manix2, but edge was still shaving sharp after cutting a bunch of cardboard (unlike S30V). i also find that BD30P sharpens up easier and takes a finer edge than S30V.


your welcome :) .

How much cardboard? Ive cut a lot of cardboard with aus 6 and it would still shave hair off theback of my hand.
 
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