What set of stones do I need next?

[GarageBoy]

Is there a reason to keep Spydie brown if DMT XF is finer?

 

[nozh2002]

As I understand, they works differently because diamonds are much more aggressive. So I think you should try and see what do you like better - I see that everybody have their own different methods.

Thanks, Vassili.

 

[Broos]

GB,
In my opinion there is no other stone that can give as fine an edge as a waterstone. No way will a diamond plate match the fine edge a waterstone can put on an edge - though they will put a nice toothy edge on a knife (like an india stone will).

I would always recommend someone who hasn't tried waterstones to try them. There has been many centuries of japanese edged weapons and tools sharpened by them, and I can assure you that some of them were and are very very sharp.

They are not the only way to sharpen a knife, but if you ever try them, I'll bet you will like them. And you can use your diamond plate to keep them flat.

 

[nozh2002]

GB,
In my opinion there is no other stone that can give as fine an edge as a waterstone. No way will a diamond plate match the fine edge a waterstone can put on an edge - though they will put a nice toothy edge on a knife (like an india stone will).

I would always recommend someone who hasn't tried waterstones to try them. There has been many centuries of japanese edged weapons and tools sharpened by them, and I can assure you that some of them were and are very very sharp.

They are not the only way to sharpen a knife, but if you ever try them, I'll bet you will like them. And you can use your diamond plate to keep them flat.

Of course diamond so far did not rich less then 9 microns and so need to be followed by Green Rouge.

Waterstones however did not seems to make good edge, but good polish - there is no too many evidence of hair whittling edges made by waterstone - mostly Ceramic Spyderco Rods and Green Rouge.

Thanks, Vassili.

 

[Broos]

I am not ready to throw out more than a thousand years of waterstone use over a few pictures. While it is a good demonstration of sharpness, I'm not ready to accept hair whittling as some benchmark sharpness test, given the great differences in hair, and the fact that how difficult they are to whittle is dependent on how much tension is on the hair (which is not mentioned anywhere in that thread). I'll stick to those tests that you refused to try, and I feel are just as good demonstrations of sharpness (and funner) - empty water bottles and such....

 

[Zeasor]

...I'm not ready to accept hair whittling as some benchmark sharpness test...

Agreed. There are toooo many variables. Thicker, rougher, stiffer hair is no doubt more "whittleable" than my thin, smooth, limp hair. My barber says there is a BIG difference scissoring thru his wife's thick Asian hair compared with my thin blonde Caucasian hair. There is a significant difference in hair texture around the world. Even picking one individual's head as the universal donor for test hairs will not work because texture can/will vary with care, environment, etc. over time. As a benchmark test, hair just won't cut it.

 

[nozh2002]

I am not ready to throw out more than a thousand years of waterstone use over a few pictures. While it is a good demonstration of sharpness, I'm not ready to accept hair whittling as some benchmark sharpness test, given the great differences in hair, and the fact that how difficult they are to whittle is dependent on how much tension is on the hair (which is not mentioned anywhere in that thread). I'll stick to those tests that you refused to try, and I feel are just as good demonstrations of sharpness (and funner) - empty water bottles and such....

Well, you are not ready to accept this or that... Whittling hair, edge retention test etc... I guess this is just personal stand or something. I respect your position. And I see nothing else I can do - yes I are in denial mode. Good for you but what can I discuss with you? Whittling hair - you are no accepting it! Edge retention test? - you are not accepting it eather. What ever I came up next - I guess you will be ready not to accept...

Look at hardenheart - on my comment on waterstones not being able to make edge whittling hair - he just shows me whittled hair. You instead came with this... Well, I can discuss with hardenheart his sharpening experience. To you I can only say that I think everybody has right to has opinion and I respect you position, but do not see how I can continue this discussion.

Seems to me that waterstones is all about sharpening, but not about sharpness. Until we have some other waterstone follower whittling hair. BTW for doctors this was standard way to measure sharpness of microtome knives...

Thanks, Vassili.

 

[Broos]

To have at least one part of this on topic, I'll repeat that yes, waterstones can get a knife sharp. Push cutting paper sharp, empty water bottle sharp, telephone paper roll cut sharp, cutting through a telephone book sharp, and even hair whittling sharp. And wood backed loaded leather strops work great, too.

Well, I did not done formal testion of D2, only Friction Forged D2, but even this 68HRC blade performs worse then any CPM S30V and of course CPM S60V.

I have only posted about your test conclusions until your post clipped above. That is a pretty definitive statement you made. I base my disagreement on testing previously discussed in great detail here (both machine CATRA testing of blades with identical geometry, and hand testing by some knife legends). And yes the testing was paid for by diamondblade as discussed in the thread. ref.:

test results with FFD2 & S30V (post 56 has link to test data)
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=476782&highlight=ffd2&page=3

test methodology (post 6) and much more discussion
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=478537&highlight=ffd2

FFD2 vs. S90V hand testing by Phil Wilson (see post 94). A great gesture by Phil, I might add.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=480424&highlight=ffd2&page=5

Somewhere in there I thought there were also some results by W. Goddard.

I guess this is just personal stand or something.

When you make a claim like you made above, you should at least be able to defend it a little before just claiming there is something "personal". Instead of this deflection, maybe you could tell us why your testing should overrule the other testing?

I do not have any problem with having civil discussions or downright arguments about our differences - I would probably even enjoy the discussion, and we may come out the other end smarter and better (everybody agreeing and back slapping rarely makes anyone smarter or better). Unfortunately in this PC age where we aren't supposed to say something that might offend someone, the act of civil argument is becoming a lost art and is becoming less and less common, I think (tangent - sorry).

Then you use the thread about whittling hairs as evidence that waterstones can't get a knife sharp, despite centuries of history to the contrary. Instead of repeating the reasons why I disagree with that, I'll ask you a couple questions.
*Did you search any for any contrary evidence before coming to that conclusion?
*Is there anything other than the hair thread that you are using to base your contention on?
Obviously you did not believe me when I said a waterstone can get a knife that sharp (and I didn't assume you had some personal vendetta against me, either).

Bottom line is that when you make definitive statements and want them to be taken as if they are a fact, then you should at least be able to defend them without getting offended.

 

[smitty0331]

For rebeveling, I use a coarse DMT. It really does cut very fast and clean. Very little effort required. From there, I continue on with my regular sharpening routine: Spyderco brown,then white. No more "stonework" is required. You may or may not want to strop or polish the edge further, but that's a personal preference. I personally do not.