What Sharpening Jig has the Best Clamps

M

MashMaster

Joined
Jan 27, 2021
Messages
23
I want information regarding the sharpening jig clamps for users. If you have not used or tested a jig please do not comment. I am only interested in the jaws/clamp, 2 clamps vs 1 another topics. Why because I am thinking designing my own jig.

Clamping considerations
  • small knives
  • larger knives
  • flat ground knives
  • distal taper from heel to tip
  • easy of use
  • does it centre the blade in the clamp or had a habit of tilting to one side etc like my old wicked edge gen 1 does (multiple broken things on it)
  • Is the clamp centred in the jig


Models I am currently looking at for jaws/clamp only.
  • Wicked edge Gen 3 cam operated, it appears the jaws close like a pair of pliers hence keeping it centred in the jig, also hinge pins have some play to allow for distal taper.
  • TSProf K03 Single/Double Clamp the spring design, allows for taper, two screws for clamp allow for distal taper and flat ground knives with the jacking screw. Downside metal looses springiness and replacements
  • Hapstone R2 basically a TSProf clone
  • Cone Double Clamps for TSProf K03, its basically the same as the original except the two jacking screws have been replaced by a cone that basically wedges the clamp apart and acts like a jacking screw, downside I see of this is distally tapered knives its going to jack and take load under one side only, not a big issue in my mind.
  • Whole Milled Clamps for TSProf K03 (Hapstone also has these) looks like it will only pinch in the centre, simple design but I like more like tweezers you cant adjust the overall gap its set by the solid piece you can only squeeze this closed.
  • KME split piece jaw similar to JENDE A 2 piece whole milled Clamp. Purports to deal with full ground and distal taper and remain centred.
 
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I love the Wicked Edge clamp. But I have not used those other systems. After spending a couple days researching and reasoning every system that I could find info on, I figured that I would end up with a Wicked Edge anyway. So I may as well save some money and time and buy the Wicked Edge first and be done with it.
 
000Robert said:
I love the Wicked Edge clamp. But I have not used those other systems. After spending a couple days researching and reasoning every system that I could find info on, I figured that I would end up with a Wicked Edge anyway. So I may as well save some money and time and buy the Wicked Edge first and be done with it.
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I have an old Gen 1 wicked edge that's kinda had it, my chosera stones all cracked for it, both locking screws stripped aluminium, one of the tightening screws in the clamp snapped (me probably ham fisted). I am researching clamps to design my own sharpening jig, will probably have to buy a few other systems to test them and start prototyping my own.
 
MashMaster said:
I have an old Gen 1 wicked edge that's kinda had it, my chosera stones all cracked for it, both locking screws stripped aluminium, one of the tightening screws in the clamp snapped (me probably ham fisted). I am researching clamps to design my own sharpening jig, will probably have to buy a few other systems to test them and start prototyping my own.
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I don't know anything about the old stuff. I have the new Gen3 clamp on mine. Why don't you just buy a Pro Pack III? Then you can spend your time sharpening knives.
Are you wanting to develop your own system to sell to people, or just build one for yourself to use?
 
Here is an interesting solution to clamping. Watch when he flips the blade at :30. Each side of the clamp can reference the blade independently of the other side of the clamp. You have to watch him clamp a few knives to really appreciate how well this kinda works. I am not saying it's the greatest but food for thought. I am quite interested in this as a designer, in fact, I am working on the cad model of a new sharpener right now as I type.

 
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000Robert said:
Are you wanting to develop your own system to sell to people, or just build one for yourself to use?
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To sell. Just not 100% happy with what's on the market. I already manufacture home brewing equipment, these days only grain mills, why because I wasn't happy with what I could buy on the market. I like heirloom type quality something somebody will pickup after I'm gone and still be using. I am not a fan of disposable mentality, I like to design things that last and do a good job.
 
Diemaker said:
Here is an interesting solution to clamping. Watch when he flips the blade at :30. Each side of the clamp can reference the blade independently of the other side of the clamp. You have to watch him clamp a few knives to really appreciate how well this kinda works. I am not saying it's the greatest but food for thought. I am quite interested in this as a designer, in fact, I am working on the cad model of a new sharpener right now as I type.
Click to expand...
You're right I think I would like to watch him clamp a few blades to get a better idea of how it works. My understanding is the clamp has two independent halves pivoted around the jacking screws, basically the ends are the handles of the pliers, both referenced to the identical mirrored point on the other half of the jig when flipped. Two separate halves also let you clamp the likes of fully flat ground knives in theory it should be self centring. I would secured it on both sides at the top not just the right side. Having to pull it out to flip it is a downside.

What is advanced in the design of this gadget the stone kept horizontal, it's the zero degrees obviously plus some play in the top rod, regardless of thickness too, you only have the sprung load of the horizontal guide and stone on the knife. I like this design because if beefed up you could use use full sized stones and use the guide to take some of the load, in the thing jig stones various types of various thickness without having to reset it.

I really like this design but seriously just looking at it I have three major concerns backlash, backlash and backlash. If you spring load the top you can even reduce the weight of the knife and drum roll if you allow play between the two lock screws you can do convex edges too
 
MashMaster said:
To sell. Just not 100% happy with what's on the market. I already manufacture home brewing equipment, these days only grain mills, why because I wasn't happy with what I could buy on the market. I like heirloom type quality something somebody will pickup after I'm gone and still be using. I am not a fan of disposable mentality, I like to design things that last and do a good job.
Click to expand...

My Wicked Edge will probably outlast me and my sons. But, good luck.
 
MashMaster said:
You're right I think I would like to watch him clamp a few blades to get a better idea of how it works. My understanding is the clamp has two independent halves pivoted around the jacking screws, basically the ends are the handles of the pliers, both referenced to the identical mirrored point on the other half of the jig when flipped. Two separate halves also let you clamp the likes of fully flat ground knives in theory it should be self centring. I would secured it on both sides at the top not just the right side. Having to pull it out to flip it is a downside.

What is advanced in the design of this gadget the stone kept horizontal, it's the zero degrees obviously plus some play in the top rod, regardless of thickness too, you only have the sprung load of the horizontal guide and stone on the knife. I like this design because if beefed up you could use use full sized stones and use the guide to take some of the load, in the thing jig stones various types of various thickness without having to reset it.

I really like this design but seriously just looking at it I have three major concerns backlash, backlash and backlash. If you spring load the top you can even reduce the weight of the knife and drum roll if you allow play between the two lock screws you can do convex edges too
Click to expand...
Your opinion of these sharpeners is much higher than mine. I find them interesting but on the whole they lack any stiffness so they lack repeatability, which is an absolute requirement in a sharpener for me. I do like that they auto compensate for varying stone thickness, which I think is another requirement in a sharpener.
 
000Robert said:
My Wicked Edge will probably outlast me and my sons. But, good luck.
Click to expand...
I purchased a gen 1 wicked edge I guess this is from being an early adaptor mine is ready for the bin
- both locking pins stripped the very shallow aluminium thread so no longer lock in in place tightly even with a few wraps of teflon tape to try to snug it down
-the jacking screw in the in the clamp broke I swapped it around with the clamping one. It works but at low angles I am now hitting the screw
-the diamond stones I binned ages ago, I know they dont last forever like DMT diamond stones but for the small surface area of the small stones and that most of the abrasion is done in the middle of the stone they are a cheap and nasty solution will be looking at resin diamond stones for a bit more longevity. I found the ceramic stones complete garbage my 5000 grit chosera stones cut faster than the 1600 ceramic stone.
-I purchased direct chosera stones 5000/10000 almost as much as the wicked edge for just a single set they have cracked into a million pieces there is a reason they dont sell them anymore and because they dont work well for it. If I saw smart and stored them in sealed containers so they dont dry out too fast it might have been ok.

I know a number of these problems have been solved by the new wicked edge designs. But to be honest for something I paid for thinking it was a once off purchase I was not expecting to have to return and buy it again.

I am also looking at a few designs where I can use full sized stones still toying with what I want to make no doubt a few prototypes are out there. Torn between making the ultimate sharpening jig and something that does the job that's functional quick and easy to use and cost effective.
 
Diemaker said:
I do like that they auto compensate for varying stone thickness, which I think is another requirement in a sharpener.
Click to expand...
With an angle cube these days and fine adjustment maybe stones of different thickness can be just swapped and use an angle cube to line it back up.

I like the wicked edge type so you can sharpen both sides at the same time. It going to be a balancing act producing at one end of the spectrum the ultimate sharpener the other something that is functional does the job and is cost effective to produce. The last consideration is only something you need worry about if you are designing the jig to sell.

One limitation with most of them if I can use the wicked edge to explain the height of the clamps it should be adjustable smaller blades with the curved tip short height smaller cone/curve of the blade tip, its why chiefs like the edge pro more due to the greater height or distance between pivot point and the blade.

As for free play I know with my gen 1 wicked edge I can basically put a micro bevel on a knife by adjusting the way I hold the stones twisting the tops out in the rods vs in.
 
MashMaster said:
I purchased a gen 1 wicked edge I guess this is from being an early adaptor mine is ready for the bin
- both locking pins stripped the very shallow aluminium thread so no longer lock in in place tightly even with a few wraps of teflon tape to try to snug it down
-the jacking screw in the in the clamp broke I swapped it around with the clamping one. It works but at low angles I am now hitting the screw
-the diamond stones I binned ages ago, I know they dont last forever like DMT diamond stones but for the small surface area of the small stones and that most of the abrasion is done in the middle of the stone they are a cheap and nasty solution will be looking at resin diamond stones for a bit more longevity. I found the ceramic stones complete garbage my 5000 grit chosera stones cut faster than the 1600 ceramic stone.
-I purchased direct chosera stones 5000/10000 almost as much as the wicked edge for just a single set they have cracked into a million pieces there is a reason they dont sell them anymore and because they dont work well for it. If I saw smart and stored them in sealed containers so they dont dry out too fast it might have been ok.

I know a number of these problems have been solved by the new wicked edge designs. But to be honest for something I paid for thinking it was a once off purchase I was not expecting to have to return and buy it again.

I am also looking at a few designs where I can use full sized stones still toying with what I want to make no doubt a few prototypes are out there. Torn between making the ultimate sharpening jig and something that does the job that's functional quick and easy to use and cost effective.
Click to expand...

Sorry to hear of your bad experience. I have no knowledge of those older models. I make a conscious effort to use the whole stones and not just the center of the stones, so hopefully mine will last longer. And I don't need anything but diamond stones so I won't be buying the ceramic stones. Diamond stones are all I'll ever need, I believe.
I can't wait to see what system that you come up with.
 
Lots of good videos online demonstrating many different systems on the market.
I have the KME, the jaws do what they are supposed to do, I cant say its the best but it suits my needs and I`m very happy with the beautiful edges it produces.
 
I bought a Hapstone M3 with the small magnetic table. Then decided to upgrade to the Hapstone R2 clamp system. The clamp system is awesome. I’ve had a KME previously and the Hapstone R2 clamp blows it out of the water. I used Plasti Dip to coat the clamp which provides protection for blades when clamping and gives extra grip.



 
^Nice. What's the lowest angle you can sharpen to in the R2, and also, does the clamp place any limits on your angles when sharpening narrow/small blades?
 
maximus83 said:
^Nice. What's the lowest angle you can sharpen to in the R2, and also, does the clamp place any limits on your angles when sharpening narrow/small blades?
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I was able to sharpen at 15 dps the other day and I still had room to lower the angle. I sharpened a GEC #47 Viper at 20dps the other day and I would consider that a narrow blade, I could have gone even lower and I probably will eventually take it down to 15dps. Honesty the clamp system really improved the results I'm getting now. The R2 holds onto the blade so well, there is no flex and no side to side movement, once clamped in that blade isn't moving even a mm.
 
Diemaker said:
Here is an interesting solution to clamping. Watch when he flips the blade at :30. Each side of the clamp can reference the blade independently of the other side of the clamp. You have to watch him clamp a few knives to really appreciate how well this kinda works. I am not saying it's the greatest but food for thought. I am quite interested in this as a designer, in fact, I am working on the cad model of a new sharpener right now as I type.

Click to expand...

Well that's interesting, this guy definitely saw my 3D printable rotating clamp design that I open sourced a few years back, and based his clamp rotation on that.

In the link you'll see how mine works. Look at the pics, and one of them has a gif of how my clamp rotation rotation works.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4135236
 
3 Narrow whole milled clamps are the way to go in my opinion.

Of all of the clamps I have, I like the 3 Rotate-K clamps that I have on my Hapstone M2 the most. They are whole milled clamps.

I also like the "small side clamps" for my Hapstone R2 very much. They are also whole milled.

Using narrow clamps like these and having multiple clamp points work well with distal taper and with most grinds. When I do a challenging ground knife like a folder with a thick spine, false edge and flat ground sections as an example, I typically would use one narrow clamp on the small flat section of the tang on a folder to stop any wobble, and then the other 1 or 2 narrow clamps supporting to stop any flexing.

I've found that my other spring-type clamps like the non-milled TSPROF and Hapstone clamps with a small section of spring steel to have too much flex for accurate sharpening.

Whole milled, narrow, and multiple clamps is the way to go in my opinion.

I don't think a centered clamp is a "must", as long as you can have the swivel point of your sharpening stone rod centered then rotating your clamp around and sharpening off-center does not matter. In fact, I prefer off-center sharpening with many of my knives.

I do also want a sharpener to have a magnetic table accessory with guide for certain knives, like tiny or narrow blades or knives with a very low sharpening angle.
 
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777 Edge said:
3 Narrow whole milled clamps are the way to go in my opinion.

Of all of the clamps I have, I like the 3 Rotate-K clamps that I have on my Hapstone M2 the most. They are whole milled clamps.

I also like the "small side clamps" for my Hapstone R2 very much. They are also whole milled.

Using narrow clamps like these and having multiple clamp points work well with distal taper and with most grinds. When I do a challenging ground knife like a folder with a thick spine, false edge and flat ground sections as an example, I typically would use one narrow clamp on the small flat section of the tang on a folder to stop any wobble, and then the other 1 or 2 narrow clamps supporting to stop any flexing.

I've found that my other spring-type clamps like the non-milled TSPROF and Hapstone clamps with a small section of spring steel to have too much flex for accurate sharpening.

Whole milled, narrow, and multiple clamps is the way to go in my opinion.

I don't think a centered clamp is a "must", as long as you can have the swivel point of your sharpening stone rod centered then rotating your clamp around and sharpening off-center does not matter. In fact, I prefer off-center sharpening with many of my knives.

I do also want a sharpener to have a magnetic table accessory with guide for certain knives, like tiny or narrow blades or knives with a very low sharpening angle.
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Thanks for the feedback to summarise and to ensure I got it
-spring steel clamps TSPROF and Hapstone too much flex
-whole milled clamps
-multiple narrow clamps at least two, three might be overkill/redundant

I can see the advantage of the whole milled clamps not having too much spring, the fact the TSProf sells replacement spring steel kinda tells me that system is not made to last. The downside is I guess they act more like tweezers with a pinch only at the tops, I wonder about flat ground knives or even square edge how well it grabs. I can see see multiple narrow clamps probably give you multiple points for distal taper. Had the wicked edge clamp I can see the disadvantage of a single clamp especially with chief knives and flex in the blade.

Are these the two whole milled clamps you are referring to
https://www.gritomatic.com/collecti...s/small-side-clamps-for-hapstone-r2-lite-pair
https://www.gritomatic.com/collecti...additional-clamp-for-hapstone-k1-and-rotate-k
 
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