What Spydie can I EDC in New York City ?

[Nemo]

You can carry pocket knives under 4 inches legally BUT if a cop sees it clipped to your pocket or your person -- it will get confiscated and you'll get a fine/citation -- or they can arrest you. No joke. What happens depends on the cop, what mood they're in and how you react to the situation.

Cops and the court can and will interpret the wording of the knife laws for the state of NY with respect to "gravity knives" -- which are illegal to carry -- as any knife that can be opened with "centrifugal force" (they mean centripetal).

What that means to you is, if they can do a "Spydie drop" and open your knife -- you're in trouble. Same for Benchmade Axis Lock flicks and any other similar opening technique on any other knife, regardless if it's under 4".

I read recently that a teenager on Staten Island got arrested b/c a Gerber Gator folder was deemed a "gravity knife." The judge sided with the cop's argument and the kid was convicted and sentenced to time in prison -- for carrying a Gerber Gator folder. Think about it.

Then, just two weeks ago I met a guy who worked at the only place in Manhattan I know of with a good knife selection who had just gotten out of jail because cops saw a knife clipped to his pocket and when asked what it was for he said "self defense," which means to their ears "intent to cause bodily harm."

I don't mean to scare people, but this is serious sh*t here in NYC. Cops will leave you alone unless you look suspicious, but better safe than sorry, I say.

I carry a Victorinox Bantam Alox or GEC Scout. When/if I decide to carry Spydercos or Benchmades, I will keep the pivot screw sufficiently tightened so as to require deliberate force of the thumb to open the blade.

I guess the UKPK will soon be a NYPK if I remove the clip !

 

[jfn]

Just FYI for the future, any folding knife can be spydie dropped open.
I've even done it to my small sebenza. If the detent is solid, all you have to do is use a finger to push it open just past the detent. Which means combined with the NYC police approved arm whip, any folding knife with a locking blade would be considered a gravity knife.
That's why Crocodile Dundee carries a Bowie

 

[tom19176]

NYC has taken it to the extreme. Any locking folder that can be flicked open ( even holding the blade) is considered a gravity knife. You could tighten the blade, but make sure it does not come loose. Certain blade designs are considered weapons by design ( tanto blades, bayonet blades, etc). A non locking blade under 4" and NOT carried as a weapon is legal. A locking balde better be anti flickable. I can flick almost any knife open, so remember if the officer can do it, that is all the court cares about. You may never have flicked your knife open, but if the officer can, then you are guilty.
It is a crazy way of enforceing the law, and I truly wish a few of the knife companies would get together behind one case to challenge this interpertation of the law, and get some case law stating a normal locking folder is not a gravity knife.

In short, in NYC it must be not exposed in any way, be under a 4 " blade, if locking it can not be able to open via a flick ot thurst- even holding the blade and flicking the handles open, and it should not have a blade style that is weapon like by design....

 

[Nemo]

Sh*t, I can even open the UKPK with a flick of my wrist...
Even the baby Goddard can be spydie dropped open!!!
This is a cuuuuurse !!!
Bless are the SAK !

 

[NeoClassic]

Just FYI for the future, any folding knife can be spydie dropped open.

This is not correct. There are a great many traditional slip joints -- including the two I own -- that are impossible to flick open in any way shape or form.

Also, there are knives like the Opinel, which although one could flick it open, requires the turning of the locking collar first, which by NY's definition would take it out of the "gravity knife" category and therefore not be a problem -- unless you left the collar disengaged or removed it.

 

[Esav Benyamin]

As long as the knife does not lock when opened, it is not classified as a gravity knife. That's why the UKPK is OK, like any slipjoint.

 

[K Williams]

Sh*t, I can even open the UKPK with a flick of my wrist...
Even the baby Goddard can be spydie dropped open!!!
This is a cuuuuurse !!!
Bless are the SAK !

SAK... what about the Trailmaster/Trekker? Almost any folder can be opened with one hand. The NYC knife law is ridiculous...end of story. I have a Benchmade Mini AFCK that I tightened up the pivot screw on to make it anti-flickable. Only problem is that I have to fight to get it open now. :thumbdn:

 

[Kiss Me Deadly]

One important thing: The 4 inch rule is bogus.

NYC LEO's will go by the 4 finger rule. Which means the LEO has a lot of wiggle room to interpret the law. Afterall, who's fingers? And the cutting edge, or the entire blade? I wouldn't carry anything bigger than a Spydie Dragonfly (which I do), but surprisingly, the knife laws in NJ (where I live) are much worse than in NYC (funny, right?) So I'm not even comfortable carrying my Delica because I know I'll likely end up in jail if I get stopped. No one has ever questioned my Dragonfly, but then again, it's always concealed.

Here's the deal: Unexperienced people from the area will tell you concealed knives are illegal, not knives in general. But exposed knives are about as illegal as it gets. It's size, how it opens, and the context of how you're carrying. You have to make sure it's definitely considered a tool of a trade. (I'm a luthier, so I use that excuse, but... It doesn't mean you won't be in a world of trouble.)

I'd rather carry a knife in NYC than be without, but I don't go to the many places with metal detectors, either. I'm actually pretty afraid of NYC at night. If you're lucky you'll get a LEO who will poke fun at you for carrying a knife and let you go. How you look counts for a lot. Could you be stereotyped as a criminal? Or do you look like the guy everyone wants to be pals with?

But it's important to remember that you can and WILL go to jail even for having a SAK if you so much as make it seem like it could be a weapon. I actually think they give people with SAK's a harder time just because they realize it's absurd to bring someone in who just had a tiny knife with a toothpick.

 

[TOM1960]

One important thing: The 4 inch rule is bogus.

NYC LEO's will go by the 4 finger rule. Which means the LEO has a lot of wiggle room to interpret the law. Afterall, who's fingers? And the cutting edge, or the entire blade? I wouldn't carry anything bigger than a Spydie Dragonfly (which I do), but surprisingly, the knife laws in NJ (where I live) are much worse than in NYC (funny, right?) So I'm not even comfortable carrying my Delica because I know I'll likely end up in jail if I get stopped. No one has ever questioned my Dragonfly, but then again, it's always concealed.

Here's the deal: Unexperienced people from the area will tell you concealed knives are illegal, not knives in general. But exposed knives are about as illegal as it gets. It's size, how it opens, and the context of how you're carrying. You have to make sure it's definitely considered a tool of a trade. (I'm a luthier, so I use that excuse, but... It doesn't mean you won't be in a world of trouble.)

I'd rather carry a knife in NYC than be without, but I don't go to the many places with metal detectors, either. I'm actually pretty afraid of NYC at night. If you're lucky you'll get a LEO who will poke fun at you for carrying a knife and let you go. How you look counts for a lot. Could you be stereotyped as a criminal? Or do you look like the guy everyone wants to be pals with?

But it's important to remember that you can and WILL go to jail even for having a SAK if you so much as make it seem like it could be a weapon. I actually think they give people with SAK's a harder time just because they realize it's absurd to bring someone in who just had a tiny knife with a toothpick.

If you carry the Delica as well-concealed as you do your Dragonfly, you shouldn't have any problems in NYC. I wouldn't worry about it. Dress neatly, keep a low profile and you should be fine!

 

[Esav Benyamin]

... the knife laws in NJ (where I live) are much worse than in NYC (funny, right?)

Not funny. Not even true.

 

[Reeper22]

One important thing: The 4 inch rule is bogus.

NYC LEO's will go by the 4 finger rule. Which means the LEO has a lot of wiggle room to interpret the law. Afterall, who's fingers? And the cutting edge, or the entire blade? I wouldn't carry anything bigger than a Spydie Dragonfly (which I do), but surprisingly, the knife laws in NJ (where I live) are much worse than in NYC (funny, right?) So I'm not even comfortable carrying my Delica because I know I'll likely end up in jail if I get stopped. No one has ever questioned my Dragonfly, but then again, it's always concealed.

Here's the deal: Unexperienced people from the area will tell you concealed knives are illegal, not knives in general. But exposed knives are about as illegal as it gets. It's size, how it opens, and the context of how you're carrying. You have to make sure it's definitely considered a tool of a trade. (I'm a luthier, so I use that excuse, but... It doesn't mean you won't be in a world of trouble.)

I'd rather carry a knife in NYC than be without, but I don't go to the many places with metal detectors, either. I'm actually pretty afraid of NYC at night. If you're lucky you'll get a LEO who will poke fun at you for carrying a knife and let you go. How you look counts for a lot. Could you be stereotyped as a criminal? Or do you look like the guy everyone wants to be pals with?

But it's important to remember that you can and WILL go to jail even for having a SAK if you so much as make it seem like it could be a weapon. I actually think they give people with SAK's a harder time just because they realize it's absurd to bring someone in who just had a tiny knife with a toothpick.

Where in the statute do you see four finger rule? I'm nearly positive 4 inches is written into the statute which the officer cannot measure by his fingers. I don't know too many people that have inch wide fingers.

 

[K Williams]

They've been using that ridiculous 4 finger rule for decades. If a cop stops you and asks to see your knife, I'm pretty certain that you will NOT see a ruler come out to measure the blade length.

 

[Reeper22]

They've been using that ridiculous 4 finger rule for decades. If a cop stops you and asks to see your knife, I'm pretty certain that you will NOT see a ruler come out to measure the blade length.

Well then he's in the wrong and if you are arrested on the basis of possessing a 4" knife or longer, you have an impossibility of fact defense.

 

[jnich67]

If you carry the Delica as well-concealed as you do your Dragonfly, you shouldn't have any problems in NYC. I wouldn't worry about it. Dress neatly, keep a low profile and you should be fine!

Exactly.

The "random" searches on subways, trains, etc. - in my experience, involve the police taking a peek in your bag to make sure you are not carrying a bomb. They don't pat you down or go through your pockets. Keep your knife concealed until you have a reason to use it. Don't act like an idiot and you should be fine.

I went on the tour at 30 Rock without realizing they had metal detectors. I was carrying a Spyderco Tenacious in my pocket and had forgotten about the Izula in my jacket. You can imagine the comments and dirty looks I got checking not one, but two knives. I smiled and took it all with a sense of humor. I got my knives back at the end. No harm, no police, etc.

Jordan

 

[tom19176]

As to the four inch vs four finger rule, the 4" is the law, but remember once your in cuffs things get interesting. If the officer brings you in thinking he is right, then your knife maybe considered a "dangerous knife" which size does not matter. How could that happen, well you said you carried it for self defense, didn't you? Well the officer remembers you saying that.....Always best to avoid an arrest. Carry a knife without a clip, so it could not have been "exposed" via clip carry in your pocket. Officers are people, and while most are excellant and honest, there are those who are not. The biggest issue in NYC today, is the demand on officers to make a minium amount of arrest and issue a set number of C ( Criminal Court) summons each month. With 30,000 officers forced to meet those numbers, the search for pocket clips goes on, especailly towards the end of the month...

 

[Reeper22]

As to the four inch vs four finger rule, the 4" is the law, but remember once your in cuffs things get interesting. If the officer brings you in thinking he is right, then your knife maybe considered a "dangerous knife" which size does not matter. How could that happen, well you said you carried it for self defense, didn't you? Well the officer remembers you saying that.....Always best to avoid an arrest. Carry a knife without a clip, so it could not have been "exposed" via clip carry in your pocket. Officers are people, and while most are excellant and honest, there are those who are not. The biggest issue in NYC today, is the demand on officers to make a minium amount of arrest and issue a set number of C ( Criminal Court) summons each month. With 30,000 officers forced to meet those numbers, the search for pocket clips goes on, especailly towards the end of the month...

I'm on board with this.

 

[HellGuard99]

Here is my opinion and suggestion - The NYPD will do anything to criminalize you when you carry a knife to meet their quotas. My first offense and they struck me with the heaviest.
Carry a Victorinox/Swiss Army.

 

[Kiss Me Deadly]

Not funny. Not even true.

How is it not true?

NYC knife laws are at least clear, and there's at least the 4-inch(finger) "policy".

In NJ all knives are considered a weapon regardless of size, type, or usage. Having a "reason" for carrying one is the only thing covered, and overall it's all just a total blurry unclear mess. You're basically left up to the decision of the LEO considering that in NJ they don't even need you to state it's a weapon to decide it's dangerous. It could also be 2" for all the law states. People HAVE gotten jail time for carrying 2" knives here.

To quote:

* NJ state police seem to think all knives are illegal unless the carrier has an explainable lawful purpose. Legally, that probably isn't so, but it may take a court hearing, some lightening of your pockets, and some quality time in jail to sort things out.

Source:
http://thefiringline.com/library/blades/knifelaws.html

How is that NOT worse than NYC?

(Note: I'm talking about North Jersey. South Jersey is an entirely different story...)