What stainless steels handle acute edges the best?

Z-FiNit sounds fascinating.

As for stainless "handling" a fine edge, that sort of depends on what you mean by "handle". CPM-154 and CPM-S35VN are very good for medium-to-thin knives that won't be bashed through hardwood... but they would not be my choice for a big chopper. They both can take a lovely thin, crisp edge and hold it for a good long time.

AEB-L and similar moderate-carbon-level, low-carbide-content stainless alloys take the very finest edges and they are really tough. The only problem I have with AEB-L is that it's not available in thick stock for big knives.

If the knife has to take a nice crisp edge and "handle" a lot of impact, CTS-XHP and Elmax have both proven themselves extremely capable and reliable.
 
I made a bait knife with this steel(Z-FiNit) and pounded on it for 2 weeks on the ocean chunking and chumming cuda I did it primarily for corrosion resistance but it did however show some rust (no rinsing at all,don,t expect H1)but it was the razor sharp edge(no chipping) after all that time that impressed.Good luck. Lu.
james terrio said:
Z-FiNit sounds fascinating.

As for stainless "handling" a fine edge, that sort of depends on what you mean by "handle". CPM-154 and CPM-S35VN are very good for medium-to-thin knives that won't be bashed through hardwood... but they would not be my choice for a big chopper. They both can take a lovely thin, crisp edge and hold it for a good long time.

AEB-L and similar moderate-carbon-level, low-carbide-content stainless alloys take the very finest edges and they are really tough. The only problem I have with AEB-L is that it's not available in thick stock for big knives.

If the knife has to take a nice crisp edge and "handle" a lot of impact, CTS-XHP and Elmax have both proven themselves extremely capable and reliable.
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That is good info on the steel, but the question remains as to why you would even bother bring a barracuda on board, even for chum? They are more irritating that even a bonito because at least a bonito can't take off a finger. :D
Lu1967 said:
I made a bait knife with this steel(Z-FiNit) and pounded on it for 2 weeks on the ocean chunking and chumming cuda I did it primarily for corrosion resistance but it did however show some rust (no rinsing at all,don,t expect H1)but it was the razor sharp edge(no chipping) after all that time that impressed.Good luck. Lu.
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now we are talkig my lingo total edge angle (razors push steels to the max but for sure they are not choppers
the finest edge i can go on XHP on a razor while still stanfing up to shaving stress (more then you might think ) is 17 degrees total angle i hae taken some carbon only steels to right around 15 degrees total but once you get under that the carbides fall out
depending on pre sharpening edge thickness i dont see why XHP woudl have any issue at 10-12 degrees per side (again we are not talking about a camp chopper but a good user)
 
It's interesting that a few of these steels have a fair amount of nickel in the recipe.Do any of the steel gurus have a opinion on this?
 
Looking at the lists on AKS, I didn't see many with significant nickel. Which ones have that added? Do you perhaps mean nitrogen?
 
Lc 200n,XHP,14C28N maybe some of the others here not sure.I looked into nickel used in industry and it,s used more for than just corrosion ,something about it being a binder in some of the super alloys.Oh well ,I guess it does't matter.
me2 said:
Looking at the lists on AKS, I didn't see many with significant nickel. Which ones have that added? Do you perhaps mean nitrogen?
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14c28n has no nickel. The N is for Nitrogen. But AUS8 does. Nickel has been said to add corrosion resistance...some doubt to that tho. It does add overall toughness. Not a carbide forming element in steel.
 
Acute angles have to do with the size of the carbide, the smaller the better. As for stainless, AEB-l, 13c26, 12c27 have the smallest that I know of. All pm steels have medium small carbides, and cast wrought grades like 440-c, 154cm etc. have the largestest carbides. Carbide pull out is what happens when the sharpening angle is too fine for the size of carbide.
Hoss
 
Hi Hoss, where would you put a maximum on the angle for the 3 catagorys you mentioned, lets say for fine slicers? Thanks,Lu
 
Lu1967 said:
Hi Hoss, where would you put a maximum on the angle for the 3 catagorys you mentioned, lets say for fine slicers? Thanks,Lu
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For the 13C26 type steels, you may be able to go as low as 7 or 8 degrees per side (DPS). The next category up it is possible to go from 10-15, leaning toward the upper end. The final category is 20ish, give or take. These are general ranges, and extremely dependent on heat treatment. Poorly treated 13C26 might be worse than optimally treated 440C. It is also highly dependent on use. The only way to know for your use is start high and work down until you start seeing damage, then back up a degree or 2.
 
Thanks me2. I guess you're right lots of variables.Thanks for giving these parameters.I'll make note. Thanks and good luck, Lu
 
since i deal alot with razors and sushi knives total edge angle is really key to me. since i have not worked with aebl i cant judge to it. as for razors (not counting anything that cuts more then hair )
cpm 154 seems to be best at 18 degrees total withougt flake out and still keeing a good shave XHP i have worked down to 16 total edge on razors and nearly that o single bevel kitchen knives (slight micro bevel at the extreme edge thinneses

realy tho specs on edge angles are more tricky due to the mass behind the edge. a 20 degree total edge on a kitchen knife i make that has the main grind at 4 degrees total is much different then a single bevel that is ground completely to 20 degrees total at leas in use
 
Good stuff Butch,you're close to what me2 echoed.I only take my edges down to .01 before I put on a 15 degree per side edge( kitchen stuff)I see you go much lower.You're right tho mass behind the edge would have to be consistent.( to get semi accurate numbers)I always assumed .01 was kind of the understood starting point, before final sharpening.,I think I would have to take to.005 in order for a 20 degree total too look right(although I could be totally wrong)This would be tough for me to pull off.Thanks again,Lu
 
Nitrobe 77 is one of the bext stainless steels for shallow angles but its impossible to get. I had 2 knives in it and currently have one and on my earlier one I sharpened it at 8 dos and gad no chpping issues. I thought of trying to go lower but it would have made the bevel too wide. I have a carson griffin in now, it's thicker than I like it (about 0.020) so im going to have it regound to about 0.008 or so and then I can play with angles more. Zfinit looks very nice too, im a fan of nitrogen steels that I have used, n77 and vanax 75 (I want a knife in vanax 35 really bad). They seem to take an extremely keen edge, n77 slightly better than vanax 75 and hold on to it pretty good. I really wish n77 caught on with knife makers, its pretty much 100% stainless, easy to sharpen, takes a keen edge, has good toughness, handles low ahles great. Its downsides were price and complex heat treat but with all of its plusesits worth it imo but im not a knive company owner. I really wish more companies started using steels like aeb l, 13c26, mbs 26, 19c27, 14c28n and give them good heat treats (high hardness). Id love a para 2 in aebl or 19c27 at 61-62 hrc, it would be a great edc knife. But now the high carbide steels are in favor (i buy them too, I just love trying out different steels) and its all about wear resistance over edge stability and high sharness.
 
samuraistuart said:
14c28n has no nickel. The N is for Nitrogen. But AUS8 does. Nickel has been said to add corrosion resistance...some doubt to that tho. It does add overall toughness. Not a carbide forming element in steel.
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Interesting how often you hear people speculate that 15n20 might have corrosion resistance because it has some nickel.....not so much!
 
I ht z-finit 4 times. First 2 times were over-heated so end up with 56rc & 54rc. Best attempt ended up at 59rc (same reading for both low & high temper temperature), along the way, I got some readings at 59.5 and 60rc. I think, those high reading were surface induced errors. Edge has good stability and passed whittling hardwood tests with edge geometry around 0.01" BET and 13dps bevel. It micro-rolled after whittled dried beef rib bone. 59rc + awesome corrosion resistant are good for using near/in salt water. Still though, I will chase for a little more hardness out of zfinit - a 61rc would be great.

Alpha Knife Supply said:
I hope you can get the steel harder. Please let us know the hardness you achieve.

Chuck
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