What steel for the first time making a knife

Heat treat is an advanced skill requiring a lot of time, money, learning and tools. It doesn't sound as cool (or as affordable) to send them off for heat treat but it will likely come out better and cheaper.

That being said I'd go with an affordable, easy to work with air hardening steel like AEB-L, Nitro-V, A2, etc. if you go that route.

Grind it with a jig too! I'll tell you the truth not what sounds good to say. (lol)
 
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I have experimented with the salt indicator and found it useful for checking a HT oven, but not accurate in a forge. The heating is all over the place in the flames and it may not melt at the same temperature as the blade. The temperature of the atmosphere and heating speed of the metal in a HT oven is much more even than a forge.

A magnet will stop sticking to the blade at around 1415°F. Put back in the forge and heat a few seconds longer (just a tad redder than it was before) ... and quench.
Ok scratch my last comment. Thanks for the info, Stacy.
 
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Ok - HSS hacksaw blades intrigue me, both for the good edge holding and for the gain in grinding skill from how long. I have bad skillz, but a mentor locally to help me out every once in a while.

I can order HSS bandsaw blades like the Starret blades I see on Amazon ... but I already have a bunch of "bi-metal" blades around in my toolbox. Are those worth anything, or are the HSS blades just that much better?
 
No, bi-metal blades will not work.

I know there are people who love to use power hacksaw blades, but I do not consider them the right steel for a knife blade. The knives I have seen made from them, and the few I tried just to see for myself, had chippy edges. The grinding requires being careful not to overheat the blade and needs sharp belts.
 
Heat treat is an advanced skill requiring a lot of time, money, learning and tools. It doesn't sound as cool (or as affordable) to send them off for heat treat but it will likely come out better and cheaper.

That being said I'd go with an affordable, easy to work with air hardening steel like AEB-L, Nitro-V, A2, etc. if you go that route.

Grind it with a jig too! I'll tell you the truth not what sounds good to say. (lol)
Sorry but I am not following ... "if you go _that_ route" . Which that is that? Is that the that that is send off for heat treat? or try it yourself at home? I am asking because I am considering trying a slippie but I'll probably just send off for HT. So I was searching and found this thread, trying to be sure I choose something good for sending off that is easy to work. AEB-L is good for that? Thanks.
 
RustyRick RustyRick "that route" refers to sending out for heat treating more complex steels. AEB-L is a nice, basic but high performing stainless. It requires specific heat treating, as do Nitro-v (also stainless) and A2(almost/kinda stainless).

The more complex the steel is the harder it is to heat treat at home.
 
My kids, ages 20 and 17, want to make fix blades. The tools I have are
1.4 inch angle grinder
2.Jig saw
3 1/x30 slow speed belt grinder
4 Reciprocating saw.
5. Drill
6 Propane/mapp torch
7 Home made heat treat forge (firebrick and the above referenced torch)
I would buy some Parks 50 oil. You can find it by the gallon. Buy at least two gallons and use 80CrV2 with the forge. Watch this video several times, particularly the last segment:

You do not want to use canola oil because it won't quench the steel fast enough. You also want to start with a pearlitic structure since you don't have good temperature control. You're just using a magnet and the color of the steel.

If you get an oven, begin with 01 or A2. With O1 you can use canola oil because it has pretty high hardenability, though the Parks 50 would still be better. With the A2 you'll want aluminum plates and heat treating foil to reduce decarb. I have found A2 to be very forgiving.
 
I will probably order a gallon of Heat Treat oil for when we do the quench. I will probably need a minimum for free shipping depending on where I order the steel and handle materials


That ain't how it works.

Every time some fresh meat ends up in knifemaker jail, the whole cell block starts feedin' 'em a bunch of nonsense just tryin' to dupe 'em out of their e-commissary. Now listen here, and I'll tell ya how it works.

First thing is you need Japanese steel. Bar none the best place to get it is from a Takeuchi backhoe, which has everything you need to make a knife for e-commerce that's worth a darn.

You can find them around, usually where someone's fixing up a road. Check on the weekends and you can usually find one just sittin' there. They look like this:

nZBq2D5.jpeg



Now once you find one - and make sure it's a Japanese backhoe, because the steel in them yellow ones ain't worth a darn - you gotta get inside the booth and fire it up. The drivin' booth looks like this:

JP5fcBN.jpeg



Stick a flathead in the key slot and twist it until it wakes up. Then drive it back to your knife shop.

Now once you got the hoe, you want to get the right steel from it.

First you pull out one of them big pins on the digger. This is your anvil.

Then you grab one of the benders on the arm. It's the best hammer you'll ever swing.

Now go to the bucket and unbolt all them little teeth. That's your knife steel, and that's the key: those steel tooth nuggets are made for diggin' rock, now you tell me, what better knife can there be than one made for diggin' through ROCK? That's right, you can't 'cause there AIN'T.

Next you open up the hatch on the back and pull out the water tank. This is your quench tank, and it's already full of green quenchant ready to go.

xjTaM4H.jpeg



Now you got an anvil, you got a hammer, you got your quench tank, and you got your steel knife nuggets. You already said you got tongs so we won't worry about that. Next you're gonna want to heat n' beat.

Grab a hose and siphon out a good bit of diesel, pour it in the bucket, and light it up. Don't worry about the black smoke, that's good for the steel. Us pros call it a carbonizing flame because it bakes more carbon in the digger teeth, which is what you want: carbon. Grows hair on your chest, too.

Use the diesel fire to start heatin' and beatin' until all the teeth look like a knife. Beat 'em all the way into a knife shape, so you ain't gotta do none of this sissy big city grinding, and if you do, it better be on a stone wheel.

Now heat up the knives until they're orange and dunk 'em in the quench tank. Scrape 'em on the backhoe treads to see if they scratch. If they scratch you gotta heat 'em up hotter and try again.

Hold your horses, they ain't done yet.

Last thing you gotta do is drop the knives in the smoke pipe of the backhoe and fire it up. Put a brick on the gas pedal and let her run full speed until the engine stops running. That's when you know they're done cookin'. We call this tempering because it calms down the knives. Now flip the backhoe upside-down and dump out the knives.

There ya go, you got yourself the best dang knives you'll ever see, made of Japanese steel and ready to cut right through rock if need be. Don't let anyone tell ya otherwise.

Best thing is, once they all get e-commerced you just head out and get another backhoe for the next round.

qwYrqLC.jpeg
 
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That ain't how it works.

Every time some fresh meat ends up in knifemaker jail, the whole cell block starts feedin' 'em a bunch of nonsense just tryin' to dupe 'em out of their e-commissary. Now listen here, and I'll tell ya how it works.

First thing is you need Japanese steel. Bar none the best place to get it is from a Takeuchi backhoe, which has everything you need to make a knife for e-commerce that's worth a darn.

You can find them around, usually where someone's fixing up a road. Check on the weekends and you can usually find one just sittin' there. They look like this:

nZBq2D5.jpeg



Now once you find one - and make sure it's a Japanese backhoe, because the steel in them yellow ones ain't worth a darn - you gotta get inside the booth and fire it up. The drivin' booth looks like this:

JP5fcBN.jpeg



Stick a flathead in the key slot and twist it until it wakes up. Then drive it back to your knife shop.

Now once you got the hoe, you want to get the right steel from it.

First you pull out one of them big pins on the digger. This is your anvil.

Then you grab one of the benders on the arm. It's the best hammer you'll ever swing.

Now go to the bucket and unbolt all them little teeth. That's your knife steel, and that's the key: those steel tooth nuggets are made for diggin' rock, now you tell me, what better knife can there be than one made for diggin' through ROCK? That's right, you can't 'cause there AIN'T.

Next you open up the hatch on the back and pull out the water tank. This is your quench tank, and it's already full of green quenchant ready to go.

xjTaM4H.jpeg



Now you got an anvil, you got a hammer, you got your quench tank, and you got your steel knife nuggets. You already said you got tongs so we won't worry about that. Next you're gonna want to heat n' beat.

Grab a hose and siphon out a good bit of diesel, pour it in the bucket, and light it up. Don't worry about the black smoke, that's good for the steel. Us pros call it a carbonizing flame because it bakes more carbon in the digger teeth, which is what you want: carbon. Grows hair on your chest, too.

Use the diesel fire to start heatin' and beatin' until all the teeth look like a knife. Beat 'em all the way into a knife shape, so you ain't gotta do none of this sissy big city grinding, and if you do, it better be on a stone wheel.

Now heat up the knives until they're orange and dunk 'em in the quench tank. Scrape 'em on the backhoe treads to see if they scratch. If they scratch you gotta heat 'em up hotter and try again.

Hold your horses, they ain't done yet.

Last thing you gotta do is drop the knives in the smoke pipe of the backhoe and fire it up. Put a brick on the gas pedal and let her run full speed until the engine stops running. That's when you know they're done cookin'. Now flip the backhoe upside-down and dump out the knives.

There ya go, you got yourself the best dang knives you'll ever see, made of Japanese steel and ready to cut right through rock if need be. Don't let anyone tell ya otherwise.

Best thing is, once they all get e-commerced you just head out and get another backhoe for the next round.

qwYrqLC.jpeg
Don’t drink and post, safe boating is no accident.

Hoss
 
Mecha is full of poo. He told me to do this too but the quenchant was red. Everything else was spot on though. I been using that knife/rock digger I made to survive in here and dig out. Warden says I could be released early if I behave. Ain't nobody got time for that. I'm diggin out with my Takeuchi tooth.
 
T Tjstampa Crag sent me one of these power hacksaw blades to try.

I know there are people who love to use power hacksaw blades, but I do not consider them the right steel for a knife blade. The knives I have seen made from them, and the few I tried just to see for myself, had chippy edges. The grinding requires being careful not to overheat the blade and needs sharp belts.

~sigh~ agreed. Sorry to throw you under the bus Crag the Brewer Crag the Brewer , but I made a couple knives from the hacksaw you sent me. It was a pain to grind and finish, and that's on a fast 2 x 42 with ceramic knife making belts. OP said he has a slow belt grinder, so suggesting these blades is inviting him to torture himself. I still have the original pass around knife I made from the power hacksaw blade. It can get passably working sharp with a lot of work, but good luck getting a fine edge on it. And when I do, it takes one or two cuts to degrade it back to passably working sharp, where it will cut carboard almost acceptably for a long time. I don't plan to use one of them to make a knife again, and I don't really do anything with the pass around knife except grab it once every six or nine months or so to see if my sharpening skills have improved to the point where the knife is not the most annoying edge I own (it still is, I'm sorry, and it's not like I can't sharpen).

I heat treated a few times with 10XX steel big old sawmill blades, and while the results were good, my set up for it was not ideal (little space, requiring rotating the heat treating setup with the grinding setup), and it would ultimately force me to add too much time and cost to each knife, for the volume I want to do and the price I want to offer. Now I buy actual knife steel from a knife maker supply company, and have it heat treated by a company that specializes in heat treating blades. 8670 is a great choice because it is low in wear resistance and will be among the easier ones to grind. AEB-L as well, if you want a stainless option. And both are quite tough so you can grind them thin and they will make excellent knives that cut very well and are easy to touch up so they can keep cutting and cutting.
 
"What do i do about the blue and red lights following me home?"

Thank them for the escort and give them a rock digger knife.
 
T Tjstampa Crag sent me one of these power hacksaw blades to try.



~sigh~ agreed. Sorry to throw you under the bus Crag the Brewer Crag the Brewer , but I made a couple knives from the hacksaw you sent me. It was a pain to grind and finish, and that's on a fast 2 x 42 with ceramic knife making belts. OP said he has a slow belt grinder, so suggesting these blades is inviting him to torture himself. I still have the original pass around knife I made from the power hacksaw blade. It can get passably working sharp with a lot of work, but good luck getting a fine edge on it. And when I do, it takes one or two cuts to degrade it back to passably working sharp, where it will cut carboard almost acceptably for a long time. I don't plan to use one of them to make a knife again, and I don't really do anything with the pass around knife except grab it once every six or nine months or so to see if my sharpening skills have improved to the point where the knife is not the most annoying edge I own (it still is, I'm sorry, and it's not like I can't sharpen).

I heat treated a few times with 10XX steel big old sawmill blades, and while the results were good, my set up for it was not ideal (little space, requiring rotating the heat treating setup with the grinding setup), and it would ultimately force me to add too much time and cost to each knife, for the volume I want to do and the price I want to offer. Now I buy actual knife steel from a knife maker supply company, and have it heat treated by a company that specializes in heat treating blades. 8670 is a great choice because it is low in wear resistance and will be among the easier ones to grind. AEB-L as well, if you want a stainless option. And both are quite tough so you can grind them thin and they will make excellent knives that cut very well and are easy to touch up so they can keep cutting and cutting.
I don’t want to contradict on this as I don’t know the source for these blades. My experience with power hacksaw blades was about as opposite as you could get and still talk about knives.

My test blade was a smaller 12” x 1” x 0.06” blade. I ground a rough blade and wrapped the handle. It worked very well as a knife until my inability to leave it alone ruined it. Very tough, held an edge longer than anything I’d tested at the time. Granted that was several years ago. It did take a long time to grind though. I was using a 1x30 HF sander so that was likely the problem.
 
I’m glad you got it to work out for you. I gave the other knife I made from that saw away and the gentleman seems to like it. Maybe I am just picky or maybe I did something differently on the one I kept. I might give it a once over in the shop again to see if I overlooked something. Not until I’m caught up, anyway.
 
I’m working on another now. I need to do final sharpening and add a handle. I’ll see what happens when I finish it.
 
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