What Steel Is This China Buck?

RazGeez

RazGeez

Joined
Mar 28, 2021
Messages
134
Well, I thought I had a pic attached, but oops, we ran into some problems.........

Ok, we got it now, showing a 179 with a T with the top to the left........which would be 2005.

This nice Mayo 179 Hilo is an excellent knife........better than your average excellent knife.

Apparently some were made with 440C but I'm thinking that it had to be a China version of 440C.

Also apparently it didn't work out, there were problems and it was changed to 420HC at some point.

This one sure sharpens like 420HC.

Anybody know the story on these knives and whether or not this one would be 440C?

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IDhorace said:
The picture is like the one I have, a 2005. Catalog for that year says 440. One of the Mayos in 2004 used 420, and the TNT version used S30V... 🤔
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I would be suspicious of that 440C info because catalogs generally are edited and printed early and may not be able to keep up with changes made or may simply not get updated on some changes.

I'm thinking that there were complaints about the Chinese 440C fairly quickly and it ended fairly quickly.

I'm sure somebody here will remember what happened. You'd think it would have been a hot topic.
 
its a good question. possible Buck made sure factory imported and used american 440c. i doubt it though, but do not know. ill explain later. possible factory in china said they did and used an equivalent. possible factory in China used the equivalent and Buck choose 440c for marketing reasons? who knows?

we know Buck switched to 425m, later 420hc due to availability, from 440c due to using blanks. 440c wore the machinery too much when they switched to using blanks. possible Chinese factory had same issue assuming these were made from blanks too? also possible costs maybe..or Buck wanted consistency of steels in entire line used. lots of reasons could be why they changed steels in this line.... besides the few i tossed out there.

we do know Buck does qc testing so whatever may have been used must have met their specs somewhat at the minimum. course equivalents to 440c are very close composition wise....so its more names as in American steel name or an equivalent. in other words different names for same thing. American iron and steel institute calls it 440c if it hits the composition specs. European formats call it x105crmo17. Chinese its 9cr18mov. all interchangeable. names come from country and specifications.
 
jbmonkey said:
its a good question. possible Buck made sure factory imported and used american 440c. i doubt it though, but do not know. ill explain later.
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It would be too costly and inefficient for China to buy American steel and have it shipped to China.

They're not into buying American.

So they used a Chinese equivalent and it was called 440C in the Buck advertising (not precisely accurate?).

And it apparently did not work out well.

When Googling info about this knife some years ago I came across some complaints about edge rolling and other problems in this ersatz 440C and I suspect that is what caused Buck to go back to 420HC.

Second question: Would the 420HC be from America or is it Chinese 420HC? Again you'd face shipping costs if they imported it.

Maybe 420HC is easier for the Chinese to copy than 440C?
 
RazGeez said:
It would be too costly and inefficient for China to buy American steel and have it shipped to China.

They're not into buying American.

So they used a Chinese equivalent and it was called 440C in the Buck advertising (not precisely accurate?).

And it apparently did not work out well.

When Googling info about this knife some years ago I came across some complaints about edge rolling and other problems in this ersatz 440C and I suspect that is what caused Buck to go back to 420HC.

Second question: Would the 420HC be from America or is it Chinese 420HC? Again you'd face shipping costs if they imported it.

Maybe 420HC is easier for the Chinese to copy than 440C?
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I agree. likely its 9cr18mov or a 440c equivalent.

well the Chinese equivalent is basically the same steel composition wise. remember steel is steel and names are names. how the factory heat treats it and such makes all the difference.

yeah if not done well, I expect that could have happened. maybe Buck wasn't thrilled with the end results and moved to a different steel factory could handle better... or maybe they just decided to change it for costs. I really don't know those answers. only someone at Buck involved in that knife production, would know.

same thing I expect on 420hc, a Chinese equivalent. although its not unheard of for a company to ship steels from elsewhere to China. any Chinese made knife using cpm steels as an example. the cpm steels were shipped in, the steel wasnt a Chinese made equivalent.

back on the 420hc China made stuff.... only really Buck knows the answers.
 
I'm trying to remember--this remembering stuff gets progressively less rewarding as you get older.

I think one of the complaints on the China 440C was from somebody on this forum. Maybe a little more info will turn up if people familiar with the knife notice this.

Anyhow, I'm sure that mine was near the end of production and it sharpens like 420HC.

It's an interesting knife for a lot of reasons. It's too bad that history gets lost so easily and quickly. It's bad enough for the usual stuff but the China knives are even more quickly forgotten.
 
"I'm trying to remember--this remembering stuff gets progressively less rewarding as you get older."

There are more and more days that I feel like a CP/M machine in a macOS world...
 
Yea was looking forward to more bucks and other knives and products being made in America but i’m afraid that changed course on November 4th 2020. Personally I don’t blame any company going off shore now but still avoid made in china….
DN
 
IDhorace said:
"I'm trying to remember--this remembering stuff gets progressively less rewarding as you get older."

There are more and more days that I feel like a CP/M machine in a macOS world...
Click to expand...

LOL!

Me too.

Well, your catalog info might have been correct. I did more Googling and found posts from Rhino on one he got in 2005 that was 440C.

OR.........did he only think it was 440C and it could have been 420HC?

How CAN you be sure what steel you have at a time when they're changing steels without warning?

Here are his posts in these old threads.

Just got the Buck Mayo 179 Hilo

Just got it today and have been playing with it for the last half hour, all I can say is WOW!! A lot of value for this level of quality. It is made is China but the quality is by far heads and shoulders above what most crap knives I have seen come out of there. It is every bit the quality of...
www.bladeforums.com www.bladeforums.com

And: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/mayo-cutback-12-88.455632/

Maybe Rhino will show up to share the history and his experience. I'd like to know if his Hilo was marked as a 2005 or was it an earlier manufacture?

I still think my 2005 sharpens like 420HC but there's really no way to tell what I have--Chinese 440C might not be like the old Buck 440C of years gone by.

Rhino?
 
This Ad says 420HC for that year. Best bet thats probably what steel it is.

Back in 2007 this knife was selling for $12.88.
 
RazGeez said:
I would be suspicious of that 440C info because catalogs generally are edited and printed early and may not be able to keep up with changes made or may simply not get updated on some changes.
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hmmm... we've seen that before, even lately... :rolleyes:
 
Makael said:
This Ad says 420HC for that year. Best bet thats probably what steel it is.

Back in 2007 this knife was selling for $12.88.
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That was not the Hilo, it was the smaller one called the Cutback.

The Hilo never got that low, although many did sell for under $30.

Mayo Cutback $12.88

I just saw the Mayo Cutback for $12.88 at BassPro.com, that is less than half the price of anywhere else on the web.
www.bladeforums.com www.bladeforums.com
 
RazGeez said:
That was not the Hilo, it was the smaller one called the Cutback.

The Hilo never got that low, although many did sell for under $30.

Mayo Cutback $12.88

I just saw the Mayo Cutback for $12.88 at BassPro.com, that is less than half the price of anywhere else on the web.
www.bladeforums.com www.bladeforums.com
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My bad.
 
I don’t know about Bucks 440c from china but I do have a schrade old timer 034otb that I bought from bladehq that was advertised as 440c but when I received it, it was 9cr18mov.

The heat treatment on this particular knife doesn’t seem to be consistent throughout the blade length. The main clip has some spots along the edge that see brittle hard and chips and other spots that are soft and roll over. The secondary blades aren’t as bad but still feel strange when I’m sharpening them.

I don’t know but it could be that I need to hand sharpen a few times to get to good metal. I’ve seen that before. But I jus haven’t been motivated to try it yet.
 
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