What Steel?

A

aread

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Aug 8, 2012
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I'm sure this has been asked and answered before, but the search gives too many results to find anything.

What steel can achieve the sharpest edge?

Not the exotics like Cowry that normal guys can't get their hands on or afford if we could, but of the generally available steels which on can can get closest to the single molecule apex with normal sharpening techniques?

Thank you,
Allen
 
Based solely on empirical evidence I vote for S30V. When sharpened to a mirror edge it effortlessly goes through yellow pages paper best for me. The knives used are BM Ritter Griptilian and DLC coated Spyderco Para 2. I have used 1095, 1085, 1055, 52100, INFI, Elmax, 154 cm, Aus 8, 440C. Steel is important but blade geometry is even more important. Slicing paper is how I measure sharpness and I have a limited supply of knives to test. Most of the steels I mentioned are shaped into knives for chopping and hard use so they have thick edges. I think a metalurgist or engineer would have the answer you seek. Hopefully my answer annoyed someone with more experience so much that it compels them to weigh in:)

Unklfranco
 
Single molecule apex? I have no idea what that really means but in my experience the edge geometry and of course technique have more to do with the final result than anything else. As far as the steel goes, I would look into S30v or S90v. Both have very fine grain structure and will take an excellent edge. I prefer carbon steel to stainless as it's less likely to chip. However, if I were choosing a steel strictly on its ability ti achieve an edge, not keep that edge when used, I'd probably look at the stainless steels. I have no experience with Elmax but have heard great things about it. Supposed to be the greatest combo of edge retention and ability to achieve an initial edge but it ain't cheap.

Just my 2¢ worth...
 
I have been sharpening a Para 2 in s30v on my sharp maker, then using a strop. It gets to "phone book paper slicing." If your looking for info on some of the "Super steels" there is a guy named Ankerson (sorry if I mis spelled), but some of these guys can tell you stuff like grain size and stuff.
 
aread said:
I'm sure this has been asked and answered before, but the search gives too many results to find anything.

What steel can achieve the sharpest edge?

Not the exotics like Cowry that normal guys can't get their hands on or afford if we could, but of the generally available steels which on can can get closest to the single molecule apex with normal sharpening techniques?

Thank you,
Allen
Click to expand...


The one you can sharpen the best, they all can take a sharper edge than people would be able to tell a difference.
 
Ankerson said:
The one you can sharpen the best, they all can take a sharper edge than people would be able to tell a difference.
Click to expand...

+1, if you notice the multiplicity of answers it's because there's no way for one to discern something like the effect of grain size once you've sharpened a knife sufficiently, unless you're a robot. So whatever steel you find easiest to sharpen is best.
 
Then perhaps the question should be which is the most durable/long lasting?
Under $100 I see these alot

8Cr13MoV, Sandvik 14C28N, 420HC stainless, 440A
 
For me I love the D2. I have no idea why but I can get a great edge on it.
 
with a proper edge almost any steel can get really sharp sharpened to a high grit and stropped properly
 
Ok I'll say from my experience:
- forged O1 in carbon steels, is amazing how fine the edge feels
- in modern stainless I'll stay with VG-10 because with my skills I find it easier to polish than something like S30V since I always sharpen freehand the final stages(3000-8000 Japanese stones) are quicker with "softer" steels, so the rocking of the wrist is more controllable though the edge achieved is better.
Just my two cents.
Mateo
 
Sigguy said:
For me I love the D2. I have no idea why but I can get a great edge on it.
Click to expand...

My D2 blades also get super sharp and I like them a lot, but I believe that D2 has relatively large carbide "clumps" and under a high powered microscope, looks rather coarse compared to some other steels and definitely more coarse than the powdered steels.

In theory, this should preclude it from the "sharpest edge" top tier unless you're looking for a toothy edge which D2 has in spades. In practice it might not make much of a difference.
 
For the finest attainable edge, you want a steel with small carbides and high hardness, 60+. This puts many steels in the same category/group. Steels like 1084, 1095, 52100, AEB-L, 12C27, 13C26, and others of this type. AEB-L and 13C26 are very close and are used for razor blades. They will take an edge beyond anything 99% of knife owners/users can do, on the order of 200 nanometers wide. For reference, edges 10x that wide will shave your arm.
 
For the finest attainable edge, you want a steel with small carbides and high hardness, 60+. This puts many steels in the same category/group. Steels like 1084, 1095, 52100, AEB-L, 12C27, 13C26, and others of this type. AEB-L and 13C26 are very close and are used for razor blades. They will take an edge beyond anything 99% of knife owners/users can do, on the order of 200 nanometers wide. For reference, edges 10x that wide will shave your arm
Click to expand...

Excellent answer. Some may think that Vg10, S30V, etc is the sharpest. In their opinion it might be but in a lab with properly heat treated steel the lower carbides can give the thinnest, sharpest edges. That doesn't always mean much to a guy who's tried 3 or 4 different knives in different steels and has found out what he likes best.

I don't consider steels like 52100, O-1, White, Blue, W2, etc. in the same category as steels with relatively high carbides like S30V, CPM 154, 3V, etc. even though they are powder steels and are smaller and better divided carbides than ingot steels of similar properties. Different categories entirely and usually, not always I will tell the difference between a steel from a category like Super blue, O-1, 52100, etc.

Without scientific equipment it's not possible for a lot of people to tell the difference given a very good sharpening job to the same grit say between Phil Wilson's 10V at full hardness, and Kershaws 14C until they start to do some serious cutting. Some, Phil Wilson, for instance, would likely tell instantly.

Lots of variables involved especially amongst people.



Joe
 
ralphjuden said:
you tell me, what are they best at?
Click to expand...

Did you expect others to do your homework for you when you were in school? ;)

Mr. Ankerson is HIGHLY knowledgeable about knife steels, but considering how many knife steels there are and how many potential uses there are for knives, I think you're asking a bit much.
 
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