What steels stain and rust?

[sash]

I think the question has been answered pretty well, but I can't help throwing my two cents in. If you want a knife that won't rust, will handle just about any of your cutting needs with minimal maintenance, and is guaranteed to make you some friends, try a Smatchet.

 

[waterford]

I NEVER said I wanted a knife that will never rust. I jsut asked which blade material is more and less prone to staining and rust.

 

[climbingrocks]

I've used some of my Swamp Rat blades in SR-101 in the kitchen. The edge forms a patina pretty quick if I'm cutting anything acidic. Occasionally there will be a tiny spot of rust on the edge if I don't wipe down well, but a couple of strops on some newspaper and the rust is gone! I've been carrying Swamp Rat blade every day for several months now, and though they are "rust prone", simply using them will keep them looking good.

 

[Ken44]

Didn't you post that you ordered a Native 5 with S35V in the other thread?
It, or a Sebenza(if you do get one) with the Same steel will be pretty much worry free.

You will still need to care for any steel, just more so with a non stainless.

I've found ats-34 is more likely to rust than other stainless steels I have had. I find it, and the non stainless D2 to be about the same in this regard.


edit- just saw on another forum that you went with the Sage 1 instead of the Native5. I have a Sage 1, and it's a great knife. I think you will really like the Sage, and you won't have to worry about rust if you take decent care of it. I've never had S30V rust.

 

[Ankerson]

I can only speak from personal experience about the steels you mentioned

154CM is very corrosion resistant. I've got several knives in CPM-145CM (yes, it's different) and I can cover them with salty french-fry fingerprints, stick them in a drawer, and come back a week later and just wipe the blades off: no rust. I know this because I've done it. 154CM can take a mirror polish, so that helps, too.

1095 is not corrosion resistant, at all. If I tried the above exercise with any of my 1095 knives, I'd have a pitted, rusted mess after a week, which would require lots of polishing and probably would still have permanent, ugly pits, even when I've cleaned out the corrosion. That said, it's just fine. You just have to take care of it. Wipe it down after use, keep a little Hoppes No. 9 or TW25B on it, and it won't rust on you unless you take it on a multi-day camping trip in a wet environment. But there are carbon steels that are even worse. 52100 for example. Damn fine steel (maybe even the best steel, imho), but it rusts easily.

If you are looking for corrosion resistance, there are fantastic, good value stainless steels I can recommend that aren't that expensive and are a good balance of performance and corrosion resistance. I'm thinking of VG-10 and CPM154CM off the top of my head.

Cheers!

Mag

There is no CPM 154CM.......

It's either CPM 154 for the powered vers or 154CM for the standard non powdered vers.

And taking into count there have been VERY FEW production knives made in CPM 154 over the years, it's mainly used by custom makers.

 

[Bastid]

and exactly how many times does a mod have to request that the thread subject be addressed rather than the sidetracks?

It would also be a good idea for members not to post in a thread if the reply is going to be use search. Let's be honest. If you do not want to see redundant subjects General is not the place. Chasing new people away is not what BFC is about. If you are not going to be helpful, just do not post.

 

[Ankerson]

I NEVER said I wanted a knife that will never rust. I jsut asked which blade material is more and less prone to staining and rust.

Certain steels such as N680, H1, and N690 are used in dive knives so they would have to be very rust resistant.

Some custom makers use steels like CPM 154 and 154CM in kitchen knives.

A lot of Kitchen knives are made in N690 over in Europe, it's very popular over there.

 

[Goosey]

If you want a knife that won't rust, will handle just about any of your cutting needs with minimal maintenance, and is guaranteed to make you some friends, try a Smatchet.

Do they have them in H1 now? I was looking at an Applegate... not sure if H1 would be a suitable steel for a large knife though!

 

[CWL]

Carbon steel or not. Too many people focus on corrosion resistance when they should be really be focusing on taking proper care of their knives & other tools. You aren't going to lose your edge to rust overnight, no matter what any sales literature may say.

People have been taking care of iron and steel tools for thousands of years without any problems. Now it seems like a big problem all of a sudden.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

People have been taking care of iron and steel tools for thousands of years without any problems. Now it seems like a big problem all of a sudden.

Yeah--because people stopped taking care of them!

 

[CWL]

Yeah--because people stopped taking care of them!

Unfortunately, this is true. Rather than learning how to care for and sharpen their knives, people want to believe in some magic wondersteel superknife that won't need care or even sharpening. People expect knives to do the work by itself, rather than actually spending the effort to learn basic skills.

 

[Ankerson]

Carbon steel or not. Too many people focus on corrosion resistance when they should be really be focusing on taking proper care of their knives & other tools. You aren't going to lose your edge to rust overnight, no matter what any sales literature may say.

People have been taking care of iron and steel tools for thousands of years without any problems. Now it seems like a big problem all of a sudden.

Thousands of years ago there were a lot less people and not as many options in steels and types of knives as we have today.

There is nothing really nostalgic about using a simple low alloy carbon steel over either a high alloy non stainless or stainless steels that are available today.

People can twist it however they want, but in the end there just isn't much more to it than that other than low cost and that really is the bottom line whether or not most would admit it... And most won't.....

 

[flatface77]

General rules of thumb: Obviously stainless stains less than non stainless. Also, a higher amount of chromium indicates more rust resistance (very general rule with exceptions here, like ZDP-189). Higher hardness in a stainless can bind up more chromium as carbides & lessen it's rust resistance too (again, ZDP-189).

Steels: H-1 & N680 are engineered to be very corrosion-resistant & are the front runners in that arena. Elmax & M390 are said to be very rust resistant. 440C has been used in dive knives for decades. Those are all that spring to mind at the moment.
Carbon & tool steels have a wide continuum of rust resistance, from the nearly stainless D2 to the very rust-prone Super Blue (so I've read). I live in central Texas so I never see rust on my blades as long as I keep them clean. There's plenty of more knowledgeable & experienced posters here who could elaborate further than I have with my little thumbnail sketch. Hope this helps.

 

[rbmcmjr]

There is no CPM 154CM.......

It's either CPM 154 for the powered vers or 154CM for the standard non powdered vers.

And taking into count there have been VERY FEW production knives made in CPM 154 over the years, it's mainly used by custom makers.

You keep beating this drum. Early in it's production, Crucible called it both CPM154 and CPM154CM. It took them a bit to settle on the former as the name they wanted. See this post from six years ago:

I had a visit from Kerrie Kengor,the rep from Crucible Steel Monday.Nice lady.She is going to be getting some technical info for me on the CPM 154.What she had so far from the lab boys is that it works and Heat Treats the same as the old stuff.The polish is better,and as far as knives go,the edge should be better.
We discussed the nomenclature,which is still confusing.Sometimes it is labeled CPM154CM others CPM154.The older,non-particle process ,steel is still 154CM.She thinks they will start using CPM154 as the new name.
I am working with Crucible on a test project to do a comparison on O-1 vs CPM154 vs CPM125V.(cheap and easy vs more expensive,but better vs way pricey,but superb) The results will be released in an article for one of the magazines,and ,of course,here on the BF.
Stacy

To Waterford: You may wish to consider one of the Cobalt alloys. With almost no iron in the mix (<3%), they really don't have anything that can rust. Both Stellite 6K and Talonite (Stellite 6BH) make for an interesting blade. While the cobalt carbides are very tough, the blade matrix is quite soft (in the high 40s on the RC scale). This gives tremendous edge retention in soft materials but makes the edge susceptible to deformation when it hits something hard, like a bone. The metal also feels like it is greasy, which is somewhat weird. I have one in each material and the 6K seems to be a better performer.

 

[CWL]

Thousands of years ago there were a lot less people and not as many options in steels and types of knives as we have today.

There is nothing really nostalgic about using a simple low alloy carbon steel over either a high alloy non stainless or stainless steels that are available today.

People can twist it however they want, but in the end there just isn't much more to it than that other than low cost and that really is the bottom line whether or not most would admit it... And most won't.....

Yes, and they all got along just fine discovering new continents, populating new lands, and performing their labors with just iron and carbon steel tools. They just took the time to wipe down their tools with an oily rag every once in a while. To my knowledge, sailors didn't refuse to sail because they couldn't get a knife in H1 steel, or found a stain on their blade... People did just fine with what they had without whining about everything.

Nowadays, there is way too much emphasis on "what steel" as if 99% of knife buyers will ever take their blade beyond the limits of any modern knife design.

I think people should really spend their time on first establishing what kind of tasks they want to perform (and no, "hard use" is not a definition) before making their blade selection based-on what would optimally fit their requirements. Starting with a steel, then buying a knife found in that steel is going about it the wrong way if no thought has been made on how that knife should be used.

Personally, I don't care what others buy, as long as they can afford it, but that doesn't mean that I have to coddle everyone that goes online to make a naive or uninformed statement.

 

[Ankerson]

Yes, and they all got along just fine discovering new continents, populating new lands, and performing their labors with just iron and carbon steel tools. They just took the time to wipe down their tools with an oily rag every once in a while. To my knowledge, sailors didn't refuse to sail because they couldn't get a knife in H1 steel, or found a stain on their blade... People did just fine with what they had without whining about everything.

Nowadays, there is way too much emphasis on "what steel" as if 99% of knife buyers will ever take their blade beyond the limits of any modern knife design.

I think people should really spend their time on first establishing what kind of tasks they want to perform (and no, "hard use" is not a definition) before making their blade selection based-on what would optimally fit their requirements. Starting with a steel, then buying a knife found in that steel is going about it the wrong way if no thought has been made on how that knife should be used.

Personally, I don't care what others buy, as long as they can afford it, but that doesn't mean that I have to coddle everyone that goes online to make a naive or uninformed statement.

They also got along without indoor plumbing, cars, electricity and a bunch of other things like modern medicine if you want to go back that far....

And they still thought the world was flat, the sun and the planets orbited the earth...

 

[Zuluninja]

kinda like superbike wars. 99% of street riders will never reach the limits of machines designed to be raced in a circuit, but a lot of them manage to wreck them. A small percentage of riders take the time to learn about their sleds and are able to perform basic maintenance while most of them are happy to take them back to the dealer to be ripped off on an oil change.

Some basic truths here. Take the time to learn to care about what you have and it will work fine for you. Just keep em dry, clean and sharp.

 

[Ankerson]

You keep beating this drum. Early in it's production, Crucible called it both CPM154 and CPM154CM. It took them a bit to settle on the former as the name they wanted. See this post from six years ago:

That was the internal name so they knew what it was, the name on the literature was CPM 154.

 

[CWL]

They also got along without indoor plumbing, cars, electricity and a bunch of other things like modern medicine if you want to go back that far....

And they still thought the world was flat, the sun and the planets orbited the earth...

Yes, and all without the level of whining seen nowadays. The only real difference is that nowadays, people expect their knife to do the work for them instead of wanting to learn some basic knife care and outdoors skillsets.

 

[Lking2012]

S30V and N680 are the two most rust resistant steel alloys I've found, even in salt water. They're a bit more pricey but worth it if you want to preserve your blade.