What the hell is wrong with people?

Skeletor

Skeletor

Joined
Aug 31, 2002
Messages
544
Let me start this off by saying that I've had the single worst week that I have yet experienced. On monday I found out that my best friend, who I hadn't seen for a week, had murdered his dad. I've been spending about four hours a day with this guy for the past few months, mostly lifting weights with him. After finding this out I went to my brother's apartment and got more drunk than I have ever been before. I was feeling ok on tuesday but I had no interest in going to school. On wednesday, before school even started, I was sent to the office and kicked out of my art class for the rest of the year. This wasn't supposed to be a punishment, apparently my insane art teacher just had "concerns". I went in to school today and about half an hour after school starts I'm taken to the office again. That art teacher wrote a referral eight days ago saying that I said I was going to "blow some heads off" or some BS like that. Apparently students can't be in school after something like this so I can't go back until I talk to the school superintendent. These "concerns" that the teacher had were simply me talking to a friend about that M1 Garand that I bought. They actually said that no one is allowed to talk about guns or knives in school. Even worse than being suspended is my Garand being taken from me by a detective on wednesday. I had bought it off of my murderer friend for $100, which I probably won't get back because the gun was technically stolen. It belonged to his mom but he told me that he had been given permission to sell it which I believed since I knew he was moving.
RANT OVER
 
They're scared. Which results in irrationality. Not helped by villification of weapons, and the publicity that almost exclusively negative use of guns and knives have received in the popular press. (too bad that climber didn't hack his arm off with a nice knife, not some cheapo multi-tool).

Stay cool. Get a copy of school policies in writing. If they persist, and it's going to have negative consequences for you (expulsion, not graduating, loss of scholarships, etc.) get a good lawyer. I'm pretty sure that a complete gag rule about discussing weapons wouldn't stand up in court - that would also make it impossible to discuss things like the sniper shootings and Iraq war.

Hang in there.

Erik
 
uh, Yvsa,Rusty; a little help here?

If it weren't legal for you to have a rifle you knew the risks. Had you no doubts about your friend's veracity?

From the Superintendant's point of view you are a known friend of a murderer, who had a stolen weapon, who has discussed guns in school. I suggest you do something about that by being completely frank with the Superintendent and telling him that you will not and could not ever hurt anyone.

If you are not over 18 someone is your parent or guardian. Did they know about your shooting hobby? If so, they may be able to help now with character support.

I'll say this to you now, because from the surface miles away in space and internet your life seems mixed up to me- a dangerous weapon is never to be used unless your life is in danger. In case you don't have anyone responsible to say that I thought I would. I'm not suggesting you are out of control or aren't mature. But your ducks aren't in a row. That may define young people.
Do something about it. Tell the cops you are not a reciever of stolen property knowingly. Tell them the shooting sports are an important hobby to you. Tell them you'll take a hunter safety class, or better yet, a range class by the NRA or offered by the local police. Tell the Superintendent of Schools you'd like to arange a three way meeting with the art teacher to straighten out any misconceptions. Show these people who you are.

Take this mess and demonstrate to others that you have it together.

I am really sorry about your friends dad. And your friend.

munk
 
Wow. Sometimes disaster comes in waves, eh?

Good luck with your school issue. Maybe you can reason with them level-headedly, but if you aren't successful in getting back into the class, just write it off as it being a sign of the times, and people being paranoid. The school is probably more worried about the fuss the teacher is making, and just wants to cover themselves. Perhaps there is another solution you can reach with the administration that gives you what you need (class-wise) without ever having to deal with that teacher again?

One other thing I might recommend is to never drink when one is in a bad mood. Little good can come of it, and there is always the potential of making a bad situation worse.

Best of luck to you.
 
Hi Skeletor,
I'm afraid it's a sign of the times. If I went to school today and said and did the things I did at school 25 years ago I'd have been put in a psychiatric hospital (I was provoked!).
Some good advice given by the other folks here. My own advice would be to toe the line, say the right things, and wait untill you leave school or college before you get back into the fun stuff. Don't forget you have a lifetime of guns and knives ahead (even if you have to hide them), but you have to get good results to be rich enough for a nice collection! Get the grades, get the job, get the cash and then get the good stuff,


Jeff
 
I graduated from high school 4 years ago, and by talking to freshmen here at my college it still holds trrue, those teachers and administrators treat their dogs better than they do students!

The WORST 7 years of my life junior high and high school. I still have nightmares about that stuff. Nothing NOTHING, not being mugged, not going through 4 years of ROTC at college with a bunch of meatheads, nothing has been as hard as that hell hole.

Hang in there man, there are people root'n for you and there IS a light at the end of the tunnel (and it is not a train)!
 
I wouldn't talk to the Superintendent without first having a long talk with your parents, and possibly even a lawyer. Take it seriously. You're being messed around with, and I'm not saying you should be "sue-happy," but school administrators have a lot of power over young lives, and frankly they are practically unaccountable for their actions.
Just be careful and don't say anything that might come back at you. After Columbine and other school shootings where warnings were ignored, things have swung 180 degrees and now anything you say will be used against you.
What Uncle Bill said was wisdom. Take it to heart. Don't let it get to you.
 
They're scared. Scared to death that something they do, or don't do, will result in innocents dying. They HAVE to be...because no one understands the "why" of it all.

It is better for them to take extreme precautions than to have one tragedy...and that's on a personal level...not counting the legal ramifications.

Your art teacher may have seen some "skelator-like" images in your drawing...dramatic, violent images...and in pop-psychology ways decided you were a seething teen with "issues." This can be addressed.

The death of a person is so far beyond the ken of most school administrators that it is difficult for me, in my old age, to realize.
For someone of your years...it may be impossible. I'm not talking down to you, but simply stating that we Don't Understand.

I agree with Stripey, get your folks involved. Say nothing disruptive, do not get angry when you are frustrated, and NEVER try to be "clever" in any discussions with the administrators, teachers...etc. They do not view this lightly and will look to anything treated frivolously as another indication or warning.

You have appeared to be an intelligent young man. Use that intelligence to deal with this as rationally as you have ever dealt with anything in your life.

you have my best wishes.
 
One (plus) ton of Bucolic Bovine Byproduct raised to about the 4th power.

Faugh!
 
My condolances regarding your friend and his father. Under the circumstances, the rest may seem harsh, but I think it needs to be said.

Now, about you and the M-1:

There's not enough information to insure that some of my points aren't off base, so don't get offended if some don't seem to fit your case.

1) re-read munk's post several times.

2) take the advice about getting the school classes you need, and graduate.

Now, let's look one of your previous posts about the M-1--

"What's cool about the whole thing is that this gun was the first gun I ever touched, now it's the first gun that I've ever owned, and will soon be the first gun I ever fire."

Sorry, but this doesn't really look good, considering the current circumstances.

And you need some advice on just what the situation is in your state since it sounds like you are likely a minor. If you're not a minor, then some of this doesn't apply. Some things to sort out:

Even if it did not appear that the rifle was "technically stolen", was it legal for your friend (or possibly anyone else) to transfer it to you? Many states stipulate that only parents or legal guardians may transfer ownership of a firearm to people below a certain age. If your friend is a minor, could he have legally sold it to anyone?

What arrangements had you made to learn to safely operate the firearm? Was a suitable location found? Who would instruct you? If your family, relatives, or immediate circle of (hopefully adult) friends knowledgably handle and care for firearms, then this is likely not a big deal. The fact that you said you'd never fired a gun a few days ago, that this rifle was first firearm that you'd ever touched, suggests that you don't live in such an environment.

So, if indeed, you had not made arangements for proper instruction, and hadn't access to a suitable place to practice, then I would have to ask, "What were you thinking when you took possession of the thing?" If the "plan" to introduce you to firearms was for you and your (now very sadly discredited) friend to go out somewhere and mess around with the rifle without instruction or supervision, then you're kinda stuck now. Sorry to be blunt, but that's the way it is, and you need to face up to it so you can get out this mess.

Yes, plenty of 12 year olds can safely and effectively hunt or shoot target--that's because they grew up with firearms in the family, and that family began to teach the safe use of firearms to the kid BEFORE he shot one, let alone owned one. (Like helping to clean the gun, and getting whupped if it was ever pointed in an unsafe direction, or not checked AGAIN to see that it's not loaded. Learn that, then the first shots are permitted.) Some things must become automatic habits before a firearm can be safely handled. That's true for anyone, now matter how old they are. Sadly, often forgotten now, it seems.

Start with an NRA-affiliated .22 rifle marksmanship program, and you'll get a fundamental foundation for whatever shooting hobby you pursue later. At an inexpensive price. They usually provide the rifles, sell ammo to be used on-site, and have everything else needed as part of the package. The progression from prone position, through sitting, kneeling, and standing, should be enough to keep you busy for a few years.[It's darn rare for any youth to achieve top marks in all positions before they are too old to earn the "Distinguished Expert" award--I only got about halfway through kneeling.] A single-shot .22 rifle may not seem glamorous, but it is what most folks taught the old-fashioned way started out on. You can get a good start at a club with air-rifles too. You might get to hang out with folks who are state champions or Olympic hopefuls too.

Learing proper range-safety, strictly enforced, will benefit any firearms owner for the rest of his life, IMO. I think it is essential. The NRA used to have a decent hunter-safety course that lasted several weeks culminating in small-caliber target shooting as well. [The hunter-safety "courses" where some guy yakked for eight hours and you took a written test don't cut it.]

And if you participate in some certified matches, you'll qualify to buy an M-1 or similar yourself through the civilian marksmanship program. Or you might decide to stay with small caiber target, or take up skeet, or...

You started out the wrong way, there's plenty of time to step back and learn right, find a good program, and you won't even need to purchase a firearm until it works out for you. If you're a minor, you will need your parent or guardian's involvement to get started though. Hope everything works out without too much hassle, and again sorry about your friend and his dad.
 
Skeletor

Everyone understands you're going through an extraordinarily hard time right now. Your feelings and emotions must be all over the place - grief, anger - depressed, confused - I wouldn't have got them all, but you more than anyone else know at this moment exactly what I mean.

In Queensland, Australia where I live, every school has a Guidance Counsellor. I know. I am one. A major part of my job is to listen to and advocate for students when noone else will. I don't know if your school has one or if he does the same job as here in Australia. If they do, go talk to him or her, you have to talk to someone. But I have to tell you that you have already been given some good advice on the Cantina, and best of all from people who have experienced life and have your welfare at heart. If I were you, I would read carefully first Uncle Bill's thread, then Kismet, and then Munk. Try an old Indian trick and try to walk in the shoes of those at school to understand why they have reacted the way they have. Then you will have a fair idea how to help yourself best and what to do next. From your point of view, they haven't acted fairly. You need to help them. You're the one in the best position to do that. Go talk to them and take a friend with you for support (if possible). It won't be the easiest job in the world when you're feeling messed up yourself - but my experience tells me that young people can do it. I've seen it happen. The one thing I can add to the advice given you, and it may shock those who don't work with young people on a regular basis, is that similar circumstances to the ones you described occur all too often - even here in Australia. Others get through it, you can. Hang in there, go talk to someone, there is a time when we all need to lean on someone else. This is that time for you.

Hey, but what would I know - everyone reckons we Australians are a weird mob - and I'm one of the weirdest aren't I - because I collect khukuries. Take good care of yourself.
 
Thanks for the help guys, I'm just taking things as they come and dealing with them as well as I can. Bill's definately right, this will be a distant memory in a few years. I got lucky and that meeting with the superintended will be tomarrow so I shouldn't miss too much school. I know I'm in the right here and my parents back me fully. I've written a statement that sums up my entire semester in this teacher's class, hopefully everything will go OK tomarrow and no one will think that I'm planning a killing rampage or anything like that. The bigger problem is definately my friend, I haven't talked to him yet but his trial is in two weeks and I would like to at least be able to speak on his behalf. You guys don't need to worry about me, I have a great family. After I found out about everything my brother's girlfriend (who's pretty much family after 5 or 6 years) called my brother and got him home. We talked about it for a while and I cried for the first time in a good number of years. I think this is one case where drinking actually did some good because it seems to have gotten me past that stage where I just couldn't wrap my brain around what was going on. As far as the gun goes, I guess it really wasn't a legal purchase. My friend is 16, I'm 17. My dad was there when the gun was brought over and I got his permission to buy it ahead of time. Now about not knowing how to handle the weapon. I already knew how it worked and how to operate it after reading so much about Garands online in preperation for actually buying one. I had my retired Marine neighbor show me how to field strip it after I got it. Worst case scenario regarding the gun is I lose $100, I can handle that. I'm still hoping that I might be able to get the gun back though, I'm already pretty attached to it. Hopefully all will be well, and thanks again everyone.
 
The school administrators only care about lawsuits and their "careers".

They do not care one iota about your welfare, and nor do they care much about "the safety of any other students" other than how it might affect the previous.

If they keep ****ing with you, sue them immediately.

-Dave
 
Heavy stuff, especially when your young. I graduated high school before Columbine (thank god), and I dont think things would have gone well for me if I was in there now. School's are out there to cover thier asses. So they will take everything to the extreme. So you gotta cover yours in return. In high-school, I knew of kids who got suspended for having squirt guns, and baseball bats in thier cars (violation of zero tolerance). All that was before Columbine. When you are in High school you do not have the same rights as a regular citizen. I forgot the official name of the supreme court case, but a while back a student contested a search of her locker as an illegal search, that violated her civil rights. Well the supreme court's findings were against her, they basically said that since she was on school property, etc... the school had the rights to treat her as they pleased. Something about, her being there voluntarily, and for the school to do its job they needed absolute control. Since then schools have been pushing things farther and farther (I feel sorry for the kids whove been arrested for merely talking about stuff). So while unfair, its not un-expected. And especially since your association with your friend has targeted you as someone the school will want to watch, you got to keep a closer eye on your ass.

Anyways, as has been said NRA sponsored gun-safety classes are excellent. There is nothing like em, learning safety. I know when I was a kid, they sure helped. And at the time, they also gave discounts on hunting liscences if you took a class. In case your thinking its just a bunch of class room sitting, in many classes there are good hands on activities, including range time. If you are interested in guns, its a great way to figure out whats what, expecially about your own state/city laws.

Take care, sounds like you needed to blow some steam off, but its real easy when young to get caught up in blowing off steam when alcohol is concerned. I know Ive done it myself.
 
Originally posted by Skeletor
As far as the gun goes, I guess it really wasn't a legal purchase. My friend is 16, I'm 17. My dad was there when the gun was brought over and I got his permission to buy it ahead of time.
Click to expand...

Here's another 2 cents worth.

You need a lawyer now. Don't admit anything else online or to anyone else! An illegal gun purchase can get you tagged with a felony. If that happens, kiss owning firearms and your future goodbye. I hope it all works out but for now, don't talk to anyone except a lawyer.
 
Skeletor, you are going to be fine.

There is a lot of good advice on the forum (as said before, you may want to read the advice of Munk and Uncle Bill again several times). And the number and length of posts shows how many want to help a young man like you through these tough years (I'm glad my own teenage years are over and I'm lucky that I didn't do anything then which affected the rest of my life).

Here's another two cents worth (and some of it is stuff you may not want to hear, but you are young man trying to figure out how to become a man and hearing stuff you may not want to hear is part of it).

a) You should have a good long talk with your father about your gun purchase. I don't know what your father will tell you, but I hope that he tells you to tell the truth to anyone who has a right to know. There were some posts in this forum about the need for parents to discipline their children. Well . . . it works both ways. Parents also have a responsibility to lead by example. Your father goofed by letting you make that purchase will out checking the rules and checking the situation of the seller (your friend). That's OK. All parents slip up all the time. And if he acts with honor and accepts his responsibility now, he is a good man (and someone you can be proud to call your father).

b) A lawyer should be contacted. But his advice will be more for your father than for you. You will find that the system is forgiving for a boy trying to become a man (as long as he doesn't keep on making the same mistakes and the mistakes are not violent). That's why you are going to be fine as long as you learn from this.

From a practical point of view, it is also why it is best for you to tell the truth. If you try to "protect" your father by claiming that you did it in secret, it will probably make it worse for him. Since we are dealing with a murder you will a) probably be called up to testify in your friend's trial whether you want to or not (more about this later), and b) don't be surprised if your emails and posts (including here) are going to be investigated so your comments are already on record. So trying to protect your father will just make it appear that he is taking advantage of you. Assuming he has not gotten in serious trouble in the past, co-operates, and admits he goofed, he'll probabaly just get a tongue lashing, maybe a fine and/or parenting course or (unlikely) minor suspended sentence.

c) About helping your friend - what happened has happened. One of the lessons to learn is about moving on. Your friend is in the hands of the justice system now. He has the cards in his favor compared to adults (no one wants to see a 16 year old kid go through the hell of the penal system and turn out worse). They will check both him and his family to try to understand why he did it. You will probably be asked a lot of questions about your relationship with him, what you did, why you did it. You may be required to testify in court. My advice is that the best way to help your friend is to tell the truth and keep your personal emotions and feelings out of it. It is the job of lawyers to rip witnesses apart to get what they want. The best way to react to this wonderful process we have of competitive justice is to tell the truth with as little emotion as you can manage.

d) About you helping you. This is a serious enough incident to be a big step on the way to manhood. You did goof by buying the weapon. But you know that so you've already learned a lot. Your friend's unfortunate incident was very lucky for you. But you should realize that your teachers, superintendent, and fellow students will of course be afraid. You should be sorry for causing them this fear (so apologize . . . apologize a lot). You should also regret your goof which has caused your school, your friends, and your family so much worry (so do tell them all how much you regret what you did and hope that you will not cause them so much concern in the future). Now . . . you will be forgiven. Most (if not all) young men have a curiosity about weapons. Some just goof up while exploring that curiosity. You may get a tongue lashing and meant to feel like an idiot (most times unreasonably), and lots of people are going to tell you what to do. But handling the consequences (fair or unfair) of one's goofs are part of becoming a man. Accept it, swallow it and show everyone you've taken a step closer to being an adult by moving on. Also, until you understand what the responsibilities of a weapon are (after you have had some proper lessons, teaching and/or coaching by a qualified person), you might keep your mouth shut about your interest in weapons for now. It gives people the wrong impression given recent events.

Last unasked for bit of advice - hitting the bottle when there is trouble is something kids do in front of others to get sympahty or show how tough they are. When men do it, they do it alone and are ashamed to the core of their souls. Try to learn to handle problems without a bottle. It would be another big step.

Hope this helps.
 
Skeletor,

I am sorry about what has happened to your friend, to his family, and for what you are going through now.

There is alot of good advice on this thread and this event will be a big step on your road to manhood. Over the next few weeks and months concern yourself primarilly with your own behavior. For the moment put aside what others may be doing to you, or around you. Give them room to make their own mistakes, and the time to work themselves out of it, and instead focus on trying to avoid making some yourself.

The next time the subject comes up with a teacher, reassure them that neither they nor anyone else has anything to fear from you; listen to them and tell them that understand their concerns; and, promise to co-orperate and do you part, to help everyone get through this as quickly and as painlessly as possible.

This is a sad event and a momentary problem, but it is also a chance for personal growth and a rare opportunity to show people what you are really made of. You are going to be OK.

n2s
 
Sorry. In my previous post the phrase "Your friend's unfortunate incident was very lucky for you" the word "lucky" should have been "unlucky". Talk about goofs. Apologies in advance for any misunderstandings.
 
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