What to do for a 12 year old who says she wants a "sword"?

Middle ages...when? Are her swords all one handed cruciform swords or are they two handed? Fantasy-ish designs or more realistic looking?

If I had a child of her age, I'd be looking at getting either a Rawlings Synthetic sword or a latex LARP sword, depending on the level of commitment I expect. The Rawlings Synthetic would be for an adolescent who I thought would appreciate having something that handled in a sword-like manner and could be used to learn actual WMA/HEMA style swordplay with some training and practice, (you can screen DVDs or check the WMA boards for local groups and go together). The LARP sword won't handle like the real thing, but it would look more realistic, feed the imagination, and allow some "cosplay." Either one would be a placeholder for a "real" sword at some future point if the kid showed sustained interest.
 
Actually, I CAN recommend a few books to get her started.
First of all, for basic knowledge of styles and history: Reinhardt, Hank, : "The Book of Swords". Mr. Reinhardt was a Protege and close personal friend of Ewart Oakshott, who has done about as much studying on swordsmanship (Especially European) as anyone.
Clements, John :"Medieval Swordsmanship: Illustrated Methods and Techniques". Considered by many to be a Masterwork on European Swordsmanship, but suitable for bladespeople of any particular school. I'm on my third copy as the first two have never quite seemed to be returned after being loaned to friends. ;)
Lindholm, David: "Sigmund Ringeck's Knightly Art of the Longsword" - Personally, i found this to be the "heaviest" of the three I'm mentioning, a modern take and translation of some 14th century Germanic Swordsman and Teacher, and formatted for a modern audience. Been awhile since I've read it, but personal tastes are just that, your daughter may love it. Don't misunderstand, it's certainly worth the price, but of the three, it's probably the closest to the era of use, and sometimes, for me anyway, the language can become a bit tiresome. Still highly recommended. I'm sure otherswill have more for you.
 
Another option for stage swords is Starfire swords--no experience with them myself.
Yeah, BKS isn't cheap--but they are very cool. I especially like their piratey swords. :) And the construction is top notch. If you haven't looked around the Kult of Athena website you should. It's a good resource to see a lot of what's out there; Stage steel and Fabri Armorum would give you some good results if you want to stay with blunts. Stay away from Darksword Armory--really tough but really heavy.
A lot of sword sellers are having sales right now.

As to polypropylene, she isn't too young for them.
 
Try to find a local martial arts place that practices with swords. If she sticks with it long enough that the instructor says she has earned a sword you can look in to buying a sword. The martial arts I took as a kid would not even consider training you with a sword before you reached your first brown or black belt if memory serves. You had to work up to it from hand-to-hand techniques and sticks. If that is also the case where you are there is a good chance she will a) have grown out of that phase or b) be old enough to buy her own.
 
A couple years ago she wanted a bow, and under questioning said she wanted to learn to hunt so I spent what was to me a lot of money on a Mission bow. It's pretty much mine now. Not to say she doesn't go out and practice now and then, but I learned a lesson. She doesn't practice enough, and I maybe should have made her one that would have given me practice making a recurve bow from local materials. Live and learn.
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In a couple of years she will no doubt have another pet interest you will likely end up with as more objects that are more or less yours now. Teen girls can fool you though and go back to earlier interests on a whim. These revisits often as brief as that first stint. I have a small pile of gifts left by the wayside and I wait for when they wonder where such and such got to because they really, really need it.

If she wants a sword, let her choose one and ask she earn it. Support her interests with the instruction it is her responsibility. When she wants a pet when she goes off to college, go ahead, let her have a fish you know will return home. Show her responsibility with any action, tool, or weapon. Watch out for the giving kid that just passes things along to friends (for whatever reason).

Cheers

GC
 
SeaxyBeast said:
Middle ages...when? Are her swords all one handed cruciform swords or are they two handed? Fantasy-ish designs or more realistic looking?

If I had a child of her age, I'd be looking at getting either a Rawlings Synthetic sword or a latex LARP sword, depending on the level of commitment I expect. The Rawlings Synthetic would be for an adolescent who I thought would appreciate having something that handled in a sword-like manner and could be used to learn actual WMA/HEMA style swordplay with some training and practice, (you can screen DVDs or check the WMA boards for local groups and go together). The LARP sword won't handle like the real thing, but it would look more realistic, feed the imagination, and allow some "cosplay." Either one would be a placeholder for a "real" sword at some future point if the kid showed sustained interest.
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I'm assuming you mean her drawings? She doesn't own any swords yet. Taking into account my own ignorance, which is huge in this area, I would say the drawings represent no particular era in the Middle Ages; but they are realistic looking (to me) and probably one-handed. I'll be checking out your recommendations. Thank you!
 
kaotikross said:
Actually, I CAN recommend a few books to get her started.
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Fantastic! :D

horseclover said:
In a couple of years she will no doubt have another pet interest you will likely end up with as more objects that are more or less yours now. Teen girls can fool you though and go back to earlier interests on a whim.
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Yes. And sigh. But I think the underlying lesson, as you note, is to make sure there is a real underlying lesson for her. I'm always working on that. Not sure how successful I am, but I'm always trying...
 
I had a Bokken at that age. Lots of fun, no injuries bad enough to remember.

Then again, my cousins and I had been making wooden swords to fight with for years at that point.
 
mooshisho said:
:) Or "bokken"

It's the wooden sword often used in Kendo. There's also the Shinai, a bamboo sword. :D
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Thank you. It's a wonder what I learn on this forum! :D

ALLHSS said:
I had a Bokken at that age. Lots of fun, no injuries bad enough to remember.

Then again, my cousins and I had been making wooden swords to fight with for years at that point.
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She's still big into sticks/poles as that was part of her Kung Fu practice. She did that from something like 6 to 7 or 8 years old, but without much dedication. I think it still influences her view or reactions in life, at least to some extent. Ah childhood.
 
On the training side of things, there are lots of options available if the interest is there. BitingSarcasm had some good suggestion above worth revisiting. Kendo and Kung Fu both offer blade training, as do many Aikido schools. Both Kendo and Aikido will give far more actual application and weapon sparring than the Kung Fu/Wushu schools will, but both have their charms and merits. I've met lots of MA practitioners who are more attracted to the showiness and grace of the more theatrical arts than they were to the simple, brutal efficiency of the more combative practices.

Escrima/Arnis/Kali will give you more immediate access to blade training, but not all schools have an equally strong commitment to the bladed side of the art. Many aim more for empty hand (cadena de mano), or knife, or stick than they do for medium to long blades. All you can do is look in your area and see what is available and ask. In the more blade oriented Filipino arts you are likely to find a lot of crossover with western fencing due to the contact between the Filipinos and the Spanish constabulary, friendly and otherwise. Here we are talking historical fencing, not modern sport fencing, which is more linear, faster and more specialized, (under the influence of electronic scoring).

As a student of blade oriented escrima, I see a lot of shared ground with historical European martial arts (HEMA). When I watch a video like this one, I see more familiar ground than unfamiliar:

[video=youtube;psaksDHJq9Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psaksDHJq9Q[/video]

Fascinating stuff, and sure to feed the curiosity of anyone who wants to learn how to use a longer blade, but very different in intent and appearance from the Wushu end of the weapon training spectrum.
 
SeaxyBeast said:
On the training side of things, there are lots of options available if the interest is there. BitingSarcasm had some good suggestion above worth revisiting. Kendo and Kung Fu both offer blade training, as do many Aikido schools. Both Kendo and Aikido will give far more actual application and weapon sparring than the Kung Fu/Wushu schools will, but both have their charms and merits. I've met lots of MA practitioners who are more attracted to the showiness and grace of the more theatrical arts than they were to the simple, brutal efficiency of the more combative practices.

Escrima/Arnis/Kali will give you more immediate access to blade training, but not all schools have an equally strong commitment to the bladed side of the art. Many aim more for empty hand (cadena de mano), or knife, or stick than they do for medium to long blades. All you can do is look in your area and see what is available and ask. In the more blade oriented Filipino arts you are likely to find a lot of crossover with western fencing due to the contact between the Filipinos and the Spanish constabulary, friendly and otherwise. Here we are talking historical fencing, not modern sport fencing, which is more linear, faster and more specialized, (under the influence of electronic scoring).

As a student of blade oriented escrima, I see a lot of shared ground with historical European martial arts (HEMA). When I watch a video like this one, I see more familiar ground than unfamiliar:

[video=youtube;psaksDHJq9Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psaksDHJq9Q[/video]

Fascinating stuff, and sure to feed the curiosity of anyone who wants to learn how to use a longer blade, but very different in intent and appearance from the Wushu end of the weapon training spectrum.
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You've provided me with a lot to think about here, and also taught me a lot in just this one post! As I mentioned at the beginning of the thread, I am deeply ignorant in this area. And by "this area" I mean not only swords, but all that surrounds swords and makes them meaningful to those, like you, who understand their cultural/combat/historical context.

I can't thank you all enough. As we've mentioned at many points, I want to, and should, support my daughter's interests. Which of course also includes those interests that end up dumped in the back of the closet, but that ultimately still contribute to who our kids become.

I never thought about the various martial arts as while I appreciate them in a vague way, they have never been a passion of mine. Your comments here will help me to learn a bit more, at least enough, I hope, to help me have a more educated discussion with my daughter. And the YouTube video is great!

Something I haven't mentioned: My daughter is deeply dyslexic, to the point of being afraid to read in many contexts. So she doesn't learn from reading. Yet. :D

I guess I tell you this because I have to learn stuff to help her find ways to learn. I definitely learn from reading, and I know that someday she at least won't have such a fear of the written word. I don't push it, and I'm just thrilled I have a daughter who is reaching her age and still is physically oriented toward strength and weapons instead of an excess of mascara. Not that I'm putting down make-up :foot:
 
I do not believe anyone is ever to old for a practice sword be it a waster, bokken, or shinai for western or eastern swordsmanship. Though I would highly

recommend you don't buy a cheap one which are usually made from inferior wood and grain and can snap from contact and turn into a dangerous projectile(speaking

from experience in my youth). Tozandoshop is a great place to procure bokken or shinai, as for western waster's I'm unfamiliar where to get the more traditional

wooden ones but Cold Steel sells some synthetic ones that seem to be very hardy and are devoid of any weaknesses of wooden ones.

Also though it seemed your daughter was more interested in western medieval if by chance your interested in an affordable unsharpened katana of carbon steel

feel free to PM me for more information.
 
Last thing for now: another reason to narrow down whether she's interested in a sword for use in learning to swordfight or for costume and display..."real" swords, reenactment swords and stage combat swords will, as a rule, have high carbon blades of some sort and be fully tempered to withstand shock and impact. The tradeoff for this is that they will also require regular maintenance to keep them from rusting.

You can get low-maintenance, display and costume swords that come with stainless blades, but those really can't be used for anything much because they are not built for contact.

So there's really several different markets for swords depending on use and sharpness, and each requires a different level of maintenance.
 
SeaxyBeast hit upon a crucial point I seemed to have forgotten to mention. Any sword worth it's salt will be made of carbon steel, anything made with stainless steel

is for nothing more than a display piece for your wall to look at and not for any type of wielding. Short answer to why is usually because at the length of a sword

stainless steel becomes brittle. Even though carbon steel requires more maintenance it is infinitely better and is the standard for all modern recreations of swords.
 
I have three daughters and a rather large sword collection

What I ddi and do is tell them that they can use the wood practice swords and handle the real ones with supervision

When they are old enough what is mine is theirs so I effect they have a very large sword collection :)
 
SeaxyBeast said:
Last thing for now: another reason to narrow down whether she's interested in a sword for use in learning to swordfight or for costume and display..."real" swords, reenactment swords and stage combat swords will, as a rule, have high carbon blades of some sort and be fully tempered to withstand shock and impact. The tradeoff for this is that they will also require regular maintenance to keep them from rusting.

You can get low-maintenance, display and costume swords that come with stainless blades, but those really can't be used for anything much because they are not built for contact.

So there's really several different markets for swords depending on use and sharpness, and each requires a different level of maintenance.
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Aleous said:
...Any sword worth it's salt will be made of carbon steel, anything made with stainless steel is for nothing more than a display piece for your wall to look at and not for any type of wielding...
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Good reminder. My few blades, which are knives in 1095, or my scythe, which is some sort of carbon steel, were not purchased in stainless because I use them.:D

I know a lot of people like stainless in their knives. Just not me. At least haven't found a reason to want one yet. The daughter, who knows? She has been watching some of the YouTube videos that SexyBeast got us started with, so that's good.
 
JParanee said:
I have three daughters and a rather large sword collection

What I ddi and do is tell them that they can use the wood practice swords and handle the real ones with supervision

When they are old enough what is mine is theirs so I effect they have a very large sword collection :)
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I won't be mentioning you to my daughter. She may want you to adopt her. ;)
 
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