What to do?

burke531

burke531

Joined
Mar 18, 2001
Messages
588
Hey everyone. I have a situation that has developed and am not sure if I did the right thing.

I made a custom knife for a guy and sold it for about two hundred and fifty dollars less than I would normally charge. I sent it next day ups with insurance as I always do but because of the low price of the knife I charged the guy for the shipping and insurance which did not make him happy and he wanted me to ship the knife regular ups with insurance. I did not do so because I have had two things lost and a very expensive display case ruined by this method of shipping. I am still waiting for a settlement on the display case. I have had nothing bad happen when I shipped overnight UPS so I went ahead and did it my way. The shipping and insurance cost more than what I charged but the guy was still very unhappy about the extra fifty bucks that I charged him for the shipping and I feel because of this that he has found every excuse to be unhappy with the knife that I made for him and wants to return it.

I told him that this was the worst experience that I had ever had at making a knife and that since it was a custom knife that I would take it back and sell it and then refund the money for the knife and the shipping but would not make him another knife and would only refund his money after the knife was sold. Or he could sell the knife himself and that way recover his money.

I would not normally take this kind of stand but this guy has been a royal pain since he first contacted me eighteen or so months ago. He turned down the first knife that I made for him and has demanded almost constant attention (which he did not get) by sending frequent e-mails and Phone calls. His first design was beneath my standards for making a knife and I worked with him until We had something that we both agreed on. I sent him a picture of the blade after forging and rough grinding and was told that it was great.

There is alot more to this story but this post is getting rather long. I am sure there will be a post with his side of the story but this is mine.
 
Sounds like one of those customers that what ever you do they are never happy! The customer is not always right! I would tell him how unreasonable he is being and tell him what you can do for him and leave it at that! Take it or leave it!
 
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sounds like you have gone the extra mile for this guy. at this point i would tell him its his and he can do what he wants to with it. i know that this sounds cold but how much more time and grief/money can you spend on him? when it sounds like he will never be satisfied.
 
Hi Burke,

I have had about a half a dozen customers like that over the years.

I refund the money or get them a different knife. Whatever it takes to complete the current deal.

After that I "recommend" to them they take their business to one of my competitors.

Once you stop answering his emails and phone calls he will eventually stop bothering you. However, you can expect him to "bad mouth" you to anyone who will listen.

Not to worry, once he works with a few more makers and does the same things to them. The word will get out on him and you will find other makers commenting to you about the "customer from hell".

Try not to dwell on it. Learn from this lesson.
 
I am a firm believer in the fact, that the customer is NOT always right.
This guy wouldn't happen to be from Connecticut would he?
:mad:
 
Gents,

I've just heard from Gus and we've been discussing this.

I don't think the customer in question is going to join this thread (at least that's what we've been told thus far.)

Let's keep the discussion generic so that folks on both sides of the fence can learn each others perspective without demeaning anyone's character.

If we get into naming names and infighting it's going to be moved off this forum and over to the G,B & U.

I think there's a chance for people to profit from divergent views here if we go about it in a calm and reasoned manner.

Thanks.
 
I was strongly considering moving this to GB&U, before getting in touch with Blues, but now I think it can be a good learning tool.
Who the person is, is something that should stay between Burke and his customer so let's leave that alone.

What is important here is that we gain a better understanding of working with makers and customers.

As long as we can discuss the situation without getting personal I think we can all learn soemthing from the situation. In the past I have been guilty of asking a maker to do something out of their style, but I have been lucky to have an existing relationship with them so that they felt comfortable in guiding me in a direction that they were more comfortable with. As a customer this was a valuable lesson for me.
 
Having my own business selling high-end collectables, i have run into these types of customers, and truly, some customers are far more trouble than theyre worth. Dont make him TOO happy with your resolution to the conflict, otherwise he'll come back to you for another knife, and youll start this all over again. Do the minimum as required by law and VERY basic ethics, but do NOT bend over backwards to satisfy him, this way he'll move on to some other unfortunate seller who can bend over for him, and we all know what happens when you bend over... :)
 
Or I am just too darn naive, but to me if there is 100% communication from BOTH sides involved at every step, then there will be minimal/no problems. However, what is ideal and what happens in the real world are often two different things. As the saying goes, there are three sides to every story: side A, side B, and the real story.
All in all, I hope this story has a happy, or at least satisfactory ending.
Good luck
Mongo
 
If the pattern is unusual, and you don't think it will sell easily, I would not refund his money, If he came to you, made a special request, and decided he wanted this particular knife made by you. Then he should be stuck with the knife, as long as the fit and finish are as good as you can do, or at least comparable to your other work. Is it the fit and finish he is complaining about, or the design? If it is the design, and he designed it, he should be blaming himself.
I would be upset paying $50 shipping for a knife, so I can see where the customer would be iritated, that is something that probably should have been worked out when you made the deal. I think in the case of a normal patterned knife like you usually make, you should or could allow a brief inspection period, and refund money if the customer is not happy with the knife, but if it is a special design, that you are not happy with, and you made to a customers specifications, I would stick them with it.
Just to give you some idea of what kind of background I am coming from in this area, I have bought roughly 10 custom knives directly from makers, one was completely my design with a little input from the maker, I was dissapointed with the final results, but I bought it anyway because it was my design I was unsatisfied with. I have also told a maker to make me something approximately 7" long, however you want to make it. I loved that knife. The others were all standard patterns from the maker. I have also been making knives for about 1 year, and selling them for about 3 months. I have had one customer unhappy with the knife I made him, and I refunded his money, I saw no flaws with the knife, I think he just had buyers remorse. I sold the knife the next week for the same price. I have also refused to make several knives, because I thought they would be stupid designs, or I knew the customer wanted something I probably wouldn't be able to do to their satisfaction. I think I am probably on Burke's side on this one, if the customer made special requests of the maker, and assuming the knife construction is all high quality, he should have to keep it.
Kyle Fuglesten
 
Bill,
If the knife is well made and up to your standards and the customer had a great deal of input into the style them I think the customer should have to keep it.That being said living in Canada when I buy a knife and I am paying for shipping I want it shipped my way.I'm more than open to discussing alternative means of shipping but I want to decide.Good luck in resolving this.


I also should have added,normally I'm upgrading the shipping because I'm really paranoid.:D
 
Bill,
As a collector of high-end production & custom/handmade knives, forged & stock-removal I have had many dealings with many makers & dealers and my take on this is he is trying to work both sides to your detriment. As a customer what you have done would have made me a very happy camper - you made him a knife at a large discount and went the extra step to satisfy his desires so having him pay shipping & handling is more than reasonable, I would expect it! - I don't blame you for wanting to ship overnight - even 2nd Day gets you much better handling I have found & makes delivery much less worrisome. You can only do so much! At this point I would just take the knife back, refund his money and resell it for what it should have sold for or let him resell it for whatever he can get. Even with the shipping & insurance he was getting it at a substantial discount - just get past this deal & go on - I would not lose any sleep over it.

Good Luck!
Bill
 
Thanks all for your support,

This was one of the most beautiful blades that I have ever made. There is absolutly nothing wrong with it that I know of. The blade is nearly 1/4 inch thick and almost looks like it is made of Wootz. It has all the same high performance features as all the knives that I make. I told the guy that I would take the knife back and sell it and then refund his money shipping and all or he could sell it himself and keep everthing that he gets. This would be the best deal for him as I am sure that he could get at least what the knife should have sold for and probably more as I will in all pprobability not make another like it.
 
So what is his complaint? Do you have a picture, I like all your work and would love to see this one of a kind knife.
Kyle Fuglesten
 
My line of work entails dealing with customers on a daily basis as well and one thing that I have found in over 18 years in my line of work is that the customers you try to bend over backwards for and give them a good deal seldom appreciate it and in fact many of those complain about something without merit! The customers that are charged full price and get no special consideration seem to appreciate your work the most! I really don't get it but that's my take on it. I endeavor to make everyone I deal with happy and satisfied and it really used to bother me greatly(still does really) if I could not make someone satisfied no matter what I did. However, to paraphrase - you can't make everyone happy all of the time.
 
Above all else remember the 1 and 10 rule of marketing or selling , For every 10 you make happy they tell an average of one and for every 1 you make unhappy they tell 10 . May not seem like alot if you have a big backlog now but trickle down economics is a bitch when it does catch up .

You can only do so much but if ya have the funds , I would just take it back and resale it as you stated that you had changed his design to meet your standards . I have someone upset with me over a deal out of country at this time, but when ya mail it to the same address twice and it is returned undeliverable both times it gets pricy and you just move on . A man has to know his limitations .

I hope it all works out in the end for both parties as you do make some fine blades .

Just my own take on the matter , no other parties were consulted or any knives abused in the writting of this post , all thoughts were of my own :p ;)
 
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