What to improve once you got the basic down

Patrice Lemée

Patrice Lemée

Joined
Aug 13, 2002
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While working on my last knife a few things occurred to me while looking at it. While it looked ok at first glance I slowly started to get a feeling like there were tiny problems with it. By problems I mean visual things that made the difference between a beginners knife and one from a a seasoned maker.

Here are two things I found out:

1) Handle shaping: Most beginner's knives, and I include myself in this of course, have either squarish looking handles or at least part of them. Mine has a small palm swell but the transition between the swell and the butt and guard were too abrupt. The different radius of the transition didn't blend or flow together if you want with the connecting part, they were too different. It's like we are scared to remove too much material. Not sure it makes any sense other than in my head.

2) Guard shaping: I showed the knife that I thought looked pretty good to my wife and she immediately pointed out that the guard was too thick and a little blurry looking. Mind you she doesn't know anything about knives but easily found a problem. As soon as she said it it became so evident to me. The guard not unlike the handle had a blocky feeling to it. But contrary to the handle it needed curves with a smaller radius to make it finer, crispier, more detailed. Not like what I had now that although not bad still looked like a shaped piece of gum.

So there you go, two things that I will try to work on from now on.
I am sure many newbies like me would really appreciated it if some of the more experienced makers out there would share what they think we should concentrate on to take our knifemaking to another level.

Thanks

Patrice
 
Good observations, Patrice.

The things I spot ,and advise newer makers against, are;
1) Blocky handles. Many look like a stick of wood with the corners were rounded off. Try and make the handle surfaces a continuous curve, with the overall cross section being ovoid ( the shape of a chicken egg). Having the butt drop slightly from the spine adds a look of flow. A bit of palm swell adds more of the same flow. Avoid huge and deep finger choils unless the knife needs them . In the beginning, it is probably best to leave thumb rest grooves and deep choils off the knife.
2) Blocky blades. The first temptation is to profile the knife and put an edge on it. This tends to look like a sharpened bar of steel. Add some taper to the blade, starting about 1" past the ricasso. Use curved lines on the profile as much as possible. The knife doesn't need more than a degree or two of arc to suddenly have some "flow". Eventually, you can move to tapered tangs once your grinding skills develop. The same thing as with handle choils, putting deep arcs in the ricasso area seems strange to the eye. Also, avoid overly long ricasso areas. The ricasso should be taller than it is wide ( if the edge to spine is 1" the length of the ricasso should be about 1/2")
3) Thick and shapeless guards and butt caps. The guard often appears to be nothing more than a piece of metal with a slot cut in it. Make the guard ovoid in front profile, and tapering in thickness. Try to avoid any straight edges. Just like the blade and handle, a tiny curve looks so much better than a straight line. It does not need much decoration to make it stand out, so a simple groove or rope file work can really accent the guard. The butt cap should usually be the same thickness as the guard.
4) Riveting nightmares. Many newbies try and come up with new rivet placement styles. Most look sort of weird, and make the viewer say, "What was he thinking?" Keep the number of rivets to two or three on most knives. Have them placed in geometrical alignment. They should be visually centered and spaced evenly. The best way to determine the position is to make a cardboard blade and draw in the rivets. Move them about until they look the best, and use the cardboard for a drilling template. Also the thing that often sticks out horribly is the use of mosaic rivets that are not aligned. Make all mosaic rivets have the pattern going the same way. Stars,squares, or any geometric look should be with a point or corner at 12:00 position ( this makes a huge optical difference).
5) Proportions. Make the handle and blade fit each other. I see bowies with short handles, and bird and trout blades with 6" handles. While there is no set ratio, a handle should be some reasonable match to the blade size and shape.

In many of these areas, the Golden Mean is a great guide to how to change things. Notice I didn't say The Golden Ratio. The ratio is an exact number...1.61:1. The mean is a balance or harmony of aesthetics. Make you knives balanced and they will look and work better.

Stacy
 
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The things I spot ,and advise newer makers against, are;
1) Blocky handles. Many look like a stick of wood with the corners were rounded off. Try and make the handle surfaces a continuous curve, with the overall cross section being ovoid ( the shape of a chicken egg). Having the butt drop slightly from the spine adds a look of flow. A bit of palm swell adds more of the same flow. Avoid huge and deep finger choils unless the knife needs them . In the beginning, it is probably best to leave thumb rest grooves and deep choils off the knife.
2) Blocky blades. The first temptation is to profile the knife and put an edge on it. This tends to look like a sharpened bar of steel. Add some taper to the blade, starting about 1" past the ricasso. Use curved lines on the profile as much as possible. The knife doesn't need more than a degree or two of arc to suddenly have some "flow". Eventually, you can move to tapered tangs once your grinding skills develop. The same thing as with handle choils, putting deep arcs in the ricasso area seems strange to the eye. Also, avoid overly long ricasso areas. The ricasso should be taller than it is wide ( if the edge to spine is 1" the length of the ricasso should be about 1/2")
3) Thick and shapeless guards and butt caps. The guard often appears to be nothing more than a piece of metal with a slot cut in it. Make the guard ovoid in front profile, and tapering in thickness. Try to avoid and straight edges. Just like the blade and handle, a tiny curve looks so much better than a straight line. It does not need much decoration to make it stand out, so a simple groove or rope file work can really accent the guard. The butt cap should usually be the same thickness as the guard.
4) Riveting nightmares. Many newbies try and come up with new rivet placement styles. Most look sort of weird, and make the viewer say, "What was he thinking?" Keep the number of rivets to two or three on most knives. Have them placed in geometrical alignment. They should be visually centered and spaced evenly. The best way to determine the position is to make a cardboard blade and draw in the rivets. Move them about until they look the best, and use the cardboard for a drilling template. Also the thing that often sticks out horribly is the use of mosaic rivets that are not aligned. Make all mosaic rivets have the pattern going the same way. Stars,squares, or any geometric look should be with a point or corner at 12:00 position ( this makes a huge optical difference).
5) Proportions. Make the handle and blade fit each other. I see bowies with short handles, and bird and trout blades with 6" handles. While there is no set ratio, a handle should be some reasonable match to the blade size and shape.

In many of these areas, the Golden Mean is a great guide to how to change things. Notice I didn't say The Golden Ratio. The ratio is an exact number...1.61:1. The mean is a balance or harmony of aesthetics. Make you knives balanced and they will look and work better.

Stacy
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Stacy E.Apelt
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Stacy,

I love the feedback you been providing, it is very in-depth and has helped me immensely in my knife making endeavors. This bit of information is greatly appreciated, as are all of your replies.

Thanks for all the help,

Bob
 
Patrice,

This is a great post. Do you have a photo of the knife you are describing above? That would be interesting to see it while reading your thoughts about things to improve.

I am just a newbie, but the things I spend lots of time worrying (probably too much) about are fit and finish, overall lines/flow, and handle shaping...and probably more or less in that order. I also look at LOTS of photos of accomplished makers' knives during construction to see where to focus some of this energy along the way. For example, I might do some handle shaping and then check out some photos to see if I'm heading in the right direction before proceeding further.

On each successive knife I've made, I've also pretty much added a new layer of complexity or challenge, such as bolsters or tapered tangs or liners, etc, etc. to keep me interested and challenged. Each time I do this, I do LOTS of reading and asking people questions beforehand about how to go about it so I am learning and practicing correct methods as much as possible.

I don't know if this approach is the best way, but it's what I've been doing so far.
 
Thanks for the input guys. I did take pictures of the ongoing process. When it is finished I will post some before and after here to better illustrate my points. Not that the after pics will be what a seasonned maker would achieve but hopefully there will be enough of a difference.

Patrice
 
My only comment that hasn't been covered is the width of the guard. I find that a narrow guard feels good, and flows nicely into a palm swell. It also fits better into a sheath. I know it's kinda scary grinding close to that blade you have all sorts of time into. Just tape up the blade and go for it!
 
Well I took a zillion pics to try and show what I was talking about but only 4 actually showed something interesting. :(
Mind you the after pics are not of what I would called perfect or worthy of a seasoned maker. I am far from that but working on it. Hopefully it will help understand what I was trying to explain and point some in the right direction.

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Patrice
 
Patrice.
You got the point exactly. The difference optically between a curve and a straight line is huge. I really like what you did with the guard - very creative. You have a good eye for lines. That handle really POPS now.

Stacy
 
Thanks Stacy. I would like the guard to be a little more defined but I still have to be realist about my skill level. Practice, practice, practice...

Patrice
 
That's the perfect attitude and a great looking knife. I like the top view of the knife, I bet it feels great in the hand.
 
Patrice, first let me say I am still in the same category as you say you, a (newbie). My problem is I tend to be a perfectionist. I use to do cabinetry and furniture building, and that is where I first realized how much of a perfectionist I was.

If I like the looks of what I am doing them I will probably finish a piece that I will be pleased with! However if I am not pleased with the looks of a knife while I am working on it, then more than likely, no one else will ever see it!
There have been times since I started knife making when I have lain a knife aside and it begins to talk to me.:eek: No I am not crazy! :D I mean the piece, after walking by and looking at in disgust repeatedly, I then to begin to see where I went wrong. When I realize that, sometimes the problem is fixable but, if not I at least know where not to go when I try that particular knife again.

Stacey has some of the best advice on the subject I think I have heard. I have screwed up a knife with pin placement. The next biggest thing for me is the handle doesn't work with the knife, etc. etc. etc........ I look at some knives and they make you have to ask, "what the heck were they thinking"? A knife is more than just a pointy thing made of steel, and simply getting all the components in the right place doesn't make it a knife. It’s a start but the knife has to have the "look” that makes it something that you desire to own.

To me a knife has to have three things, and I try to achieve that in each and every knife I build. I want one of my knives to first entertain your eyes and make you want to pick it up, (the look) and once you pick it up I want it to feel so good in your hand that you just have to use it, (balance and flow) and once you use it I hope it looks and feels so good, (great performance) that it will always be your first choice for the job at hand.

By the way I am liking how your knife looks! The handle has good lines and the guard is contoured with a good shape that is functional as well as pleasing to look at!

I will tell you a quick funny story. I was doing construction years ago and working for a man that was part owner of the company I worked for. I had been there about three weeks when I found out the man, made knives. While discussing that he made knives I volunteered that I had just finished a knife of my own, (it was one of my first). He said he would like to see it. Well after bringing it in he looked at and said that it was a "user" that most of what he made nowdays was going to collectors and such. So "user" sounded fairly good to me as that was what I had intended on doing, was using it!
I found out many years later, that this man is a Master Smith, and recognized maker in the guild and many of his knives go for up to four figures!
I still have that first knife and it has skinned several deer, so yes it was a "user" but, when I look at it now I realize he might have been being kind when he said it was a "user"! Even though it had good balance the fit and finish were poor, the pins were a disaster, the guard was poorly designed and attached to the knife in a way that I know now leaves a lot to be desired, and the sheath even sucked! What I didn’t know was that “user” was probably the best compliment he could give me at the time.
 
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