What to use on fresh etched carbon Damascus?

F

Frank Niro

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Sep 10, 2000
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I'm looking to do some folders without my usual heat colouring of them. What can be used to help prevent oxidation? Thanks. Frank
 
Properly etched and neutralized hardened damascus should be pretty oxidation resistant on its own Frank, but you can use the normal stuff for protecting it. Ren Wax, etc. Or did I misunderstand the question?
 
Chuck Richards did a WIP awhile back on how he parkerizes some of his damascus blades. That might be an option?
 
Parkerizing, or bluing, are alternatives to standard etching processes Brian. So the question would still stand regardless I think. Usually they're used to achieve different appearances to the pattern.
 
Not really alternatives but additional steps to the etch. I do a deep etch then parkerize. The etch goes deeper on the simple carbon steel and the parkerizing fills in the valleys. This helps prevent oxidation and I hit the high spots, the nickle bearing steel. this is has a better rust resistance. Bluing is also done after the etch. Then the high spots are hit again with high grit paper. The only difference in the pattern is a much sharper contrast. This can be done in place of your standard heat coloring or just etch, boil (which sets the dark in the valleys) and sand with 2k paper. or do a normal etch and use a good oil or wax. All work well.
 
Cool, thanks for clarifying Chuck. I admit, I've only observed the progressing vogue of hot bluing and parkerizing, I haven't tried it yet myself. Definitely planning on giving it a try soon however.
 
My impression re parkerizing damascus is that its primary purpose is to get the "black parts" REALLY black so that you get super high contrast. Same for bluing. I think that some folks have gone over to Parkerizing from using stuff like baking lacquer or even blueing solution because it is a much more durable "finish"
 
Yes the parkerizing is a much more durable finish over the bake on lacquer. And it is primarily to accentuate the black contrast. It does however add another benefit. The parkerizing is actually a bit porous and absorbs oil making it even more rust resistant. I have had a parkerized blade sitting on my bench for over a year now with no signs of rust. All the while I have had to refinish several others sitting right beside that blade. This is another reason I really like the parkerizing.
 
Chuck, I understand that there are two basic formulas of Parkerizing solution, manganese and zinc phosphate, IIRC, and I have heard that the one that gets things "blacker" has the disadvantage of a larger "crystal" structure. Which are you using? I also heard a rumor from someone at Blade this year that some of the Brazilian smiths had figured out a way to use some kind of Parkerizing chemical as part of their regular etchant solution so you might not have to heat it up so much.
A C Richards said:
Yes the parkerizing is a much more durable finish over the bake on lacquer. And it is primarily to accentuate the black contrast. It does however add another benefit. The parkerizing is actually a bit porous and absorbs oil making it even more rust resistant. I have had a parkerized blade sitting on my bench for over a year now with no signs of rust. All the while I have had to refinish several others sitting right beside that blade. This is another reason I really like the parkerizing.
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jdm61 said:
Chuck, I understand that there are two basic formulas of Parkerizing solution, manganese and zinc phosphate, IIRC, and I have heard that the one that gets things "blacker" has the disadvantage of a larger "crystal" structure. Which are you using? I also heard a rumor from someone at Blade this year that some of the Brazilian smiths had figured out a way to use some kind of Parkerizing chemical as part of their regular etchant solution so you might not have to heat it up so much.
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http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/875088-Parkerizing-WIP?highlight=Parkerizing

Here's the WIP Chuck did. Hope it helps.
 
Thanks for the link Brian.

The maganese parkerizing produces the black finish. It does have a slightly larger crystalline structure over the zinc. However the way I do it I am getting a very glossy finish over the entire blade surface. Most times parkerizing is done in one step. I do it in many. I believe the multiple steps are filling in the larger structure making it a much denser finish. I cannot attest to the Brazilian smiths process. From what I had seen in the WIP's I got the idea from they do an etch then park. If they have figured a way to do the park and etch at the same time I would love to see it also. It does not make sense to me because I need the deep valleys to get the build-up of manganese phosphate I want giving a good dense tough finish. If it were not so deep the finish would rub off in short order.
 
Heating in the parkerizing process involves boiling or actually just below boiling the blade. It is effective from about 170f. The temp is low enough that it will not have an effect on the blade temper. Some smiths do etch then boil the blade which is supposed to set the black produced in the etch. I have found it does work but is not nearly as tough as parkerizing.
 
Boiling is also how you convert red iron oxides (rust) into blue-blade oxides (bluing) when doing traditional rust/fume blueing.
A C Richards said:
Heating in the parkerizing process involves boiling or actually just below boiling the blade. It is effective from about 170f. The temp is low enough that it will not have an effect on the blade temper. Some smiths do etch then boil the blade which is supposed to set the black produced in the etch. I have found it does work but is not nearly as tough as parkerizing.
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Yup, looked it up again. There is a difference between rust blue and plumb bluing. I have been thinking about trying a plumb blue in the near future.
 
Rust bluing can be done with a wipe on solution, but the hardcore guys like Purdey and Holland & Holland still probably do it by hanging the parts in a fuming cabinet with a little dish of acid or two in the bottom. The way they do it, you get that VERY dark fine satiny looking finish that they call "blacking" rather than bluing.
A C Richards said:
Yup, looked it up again. There is a difference between rust blue and plumb bluing. I have been thinking about trying a plumb blue in the near future.
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I think that the "plum brown" finish is what they used to get on older guns before they refined the process and also started using more modern steel.
 
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