What to use to sharpen a knife

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Feb 25, 2016
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Hello Everybody;

I like to have my knives as sharp as possible. The problem I have is that I have a hard time finding and/or holding the proper angel of the bevel while I go through the wet stones.

Would you recommend switching to a sharpening system like the one Spyderco has or you think that I can obtain a better edge using traditional wet stones.

I use Norton wet stones. 220, 1000, 4000 and 8000 grit. I usually only use the 1000 and sometimes the 4000.

Thank you for your feedback
 
Hello Everybody;

I like to have my knives as sharp as possible. The problem I have is that I have a hard time finding and/or holding the proper angel of the bevel while I go through the wet stones.

Would you recommend switching to a sharpening system like the one Spyderco has or you think that I can obtain a better edge using traditional wet stones.

I use Norton wet stones. 220, 1000, 4000 and 8000 grit. I usually only use the 1000 and sometimes the 4000.

Thank you for your feedback

I think, if you "have a hard time finding and/or holding the proper angel of the bevel while I go through the wet stones", you're not going to get much better results using "traditional water stones", unless you invest the time learning the technique.

So, this being the case, maybe consider a guided sharpening method? I'd look a little beyond the Spyderco Sharpmaker, if that's what you're referring to. If you want to stay 'non-powered', look at the KME, Wicked Edge, Edge Pro, etc. If powered is a option I'd look at the Ken Onion WorkSharp.

Another option if you're getting decent edges now... would be to add a strop with a fine compound to what you use now.
 
If holding the angle is the main issue, you might experiment with a simple angle guide, such as DMT's Aligner clamp. You can use it with any of your existing stones to steady the angle enough to (hopefully) improve results. Assuming your existing stones are of different thickness/height as they sit on the bench, the angle set by the clamp will vary from stone to stone, because the variation in thickness/height will change the working angle. So, in using the clamp, use it with only one stone of your choosing to get a feel for maintaining the angle. Your hands can 'learn' this by using the clamp, and it could help you transition back to freehand in using your other stones. If you practice enough with one stone and the clamp, it'll become easier to replicate the feel of the process and carry that forward into using your other stones without the clamp. There's not much to lose in trying this; the clamp is only about $12-$15 (U.S.), and it could make a big difference in results, for the little money spent. Obviously, it'll also help you keep using the stones you've already come to like.


David
 
Hello Everybody;

I like to have my knives as sharp as possible. The problem I have is that I have a hard time finding and/or holding the proper angel of the bevel while I go through the wet stones.

Would you recommend switching to a sharpening system like the one Spyderco has or you think that I can obtain a better edge using traditional wet stones.

I use Norton wet stones. 220, 1000, 4000 and 8000 grit. I usually only use the 1000 and sometimes the 4000.

Thank you for your feedback

The stones you have will put a screaming edge on most knife steels, is a question of tightening up your technique. The key is to find and hold the angle by feel.


This is a pretty good simple primer:
https://suzukitool.com/tools/japanese-home-kitchen/how-to-sharpen-japanese-kitchen-knives

And another:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuGwd9YZ8_g

Lastly, I make and sell a sharpening block that increases tactile feedback and has helped many to gain and improve freehand sharpening technique. The site is linked below in my signature line. The first video on the site also has a good primer for freehand sharpening in general.
 
I use a guide from Razor Edge systems. The "cub" size works for just about any knife up to 8" or so. I can sharpen freehand, but the guide makes the process fast, easy and repeatable, as long as the guide gets clamped on the blade in more or less the same spot each time. I can step through 4 or 5 grits of stones (I use diamond) and take a "super steel" (S110V, D2, M390, etc.) knife from visible dullness to 8000 mesh in 5 minutes or less. I also have the DMT aligner, which is OK, but I sometimes had issues with the plastic flexing or not clamping well on some blades, so it rarely gets used anymore.
 
Hello Everybody;

The problem I have is that I have a hard time finding and/or holding the proper angel of the bevel while I go through the wet stones.



Thank you for your feedback

Here's how I solved that problem:

It's a lot easier for me to hold the blade level throughout the sharpening stroke that to hold it at a preset angle. So I just found a way to set the stones at a desired angle.









 
Thank you for all the replays;

Is there an advantage in using wet stones free hand vs sharpening systems.

I like very much the idea of having a consistent angel pass after pass.

I have seen the Sharpmaker from Spyderco getting very good reviews. I also like the Universal Lansky type of system http://lansky.com/index.php/products/universal-system/ . The other systems I have seen seem to be very expensive for the use I will make of it.

Thanks;
 
The main drawback to most guided sharpening systems is the relatively small stones used; some are much smaller than others (Lansky system, for example). The smaller ones I think were really designed and intended for lighter touch-up & maintenance work, instead of for heavy grinding and rebevelling, though nearly all of them get used for such heavy work. A benchstone always has an advantage in grinding speed for this reason, as it's surface area makes the biggest difference in how fast it removes metal. A typically-sized bench stone will likely cut the working time in half, and maybe down to 1/3 or 1/4 of the time needed with a smaller guided hone. Another advantage of using a larger stone is that it's conducive to long, smooth sharpening strokes, which usually translates to better results and a cleaner finish on the bevels. There's necessarily a lot of 'back & forth' involved in using smaller stones for heavier grinding work, and that can make it more difficult or awkward to leave a clean-looking finish on the bevels and a clean-cutting apex at the edge. You can stick to only edge-leading passes with the smaller stones, to maintain a clean & even scratch pattern; but that also will be very slow-going during earlier grinding stages. Smaller stones will also wear & clog much faster, because all of that grinding is done with relatively little abrasive stock. All of this is why I suggested using a guided clamp that works well with a bench stone, as it still allows you to take advantage of the larger stone's cutting speed and ease of use.

The Aligner clamp is made to be used with either a bench stone or with guided-rod hones (such as the 'Aligner' set or with DMT's DiaFold hones and the 'MagnaGuide' accessory used with them). So, the upside in trying it out is, you can get the clamp with a set, or use it by itself with your bench stones, depending on which sharpening task is being done (touchups or heavier work).


David

Thank you for all the replays;

Is there an advantage in using wet stones free hand vs sharpening systems.

I like very much the idea of having a consistent angel pass after pass.

I have seen the Sharpmaker from Spyderco getting very good reviews. I also like the Universal Lansky type of system http://lansky.com/index.php/products/universal-system/ . The other systems I have seen seem to be very expensive for the use I will make of it.

Thanks;
 
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David's response pretty much nails it. I'd add to that, once you can use benchstones freehand, your ability to use all manner of sharpening tools from files to pucks to improvised means will be greatly enhanced. Not all machines or guides can handle a full rage of edged tools, or at least not without extra jigs and/or major drawbacks in terms of speed.

Competent freehand abilities should be on every edged tool enthusiast short list, if not at the very top.
 
The main drawback to most guided sharpening systems is the relatively small stones used; some are much smaller than others (Lansky system, for example). The smaller ones I think were really designed and intended for lighter touch-up & maintenance work, instead of for heavy grinding and rebevelling, though nearly all of them get used for such heavy work. A benchstone always has an advantage in grinding speed for this reason, as it's surface area makes the biggest difference in how fast it removes metal. A typically-sized bench stone will likely cut the working time in half, and maybe down to 1/3 or 1/4 of the time needed with a smaller guided hone. Another advantage of using a larger stone is it's conduciveness to long, smooth sharpening strokes, which usually translates to better results and a cleaner finish on the bevels. There's necessarily a lot of 'back & forth' involved in using smaller stones for heavier grinding work, and that can make it more difficult or awkward to leave a clean-looking finish on the bevels and a clean-cutting apex at the edge. You can stick to only edge-leading passes with the smaller stones, to maintain a clean & even scratch pattern; but that also will be very slow-going during earlier grinding stages. Smaller stones will also wear & clog much faster, because all of that grinding is done with relatively little abrasive stock. All of this is why I suggested using a guided clamp that works well with a bench stone, as it still allows you to take advantage of the larger stone's cutting speed and ease of use.

The Aligner clamp is made to be used with either a bench stone or with guided-rod hones (such the 'Aligner' set or with DMT's DiaFold hones and the 'MagnaGuide' accessory used with them). So, the upside in trying it out is, you can get the clamp with a set, or use it by itself with your bench stones, depending on which sharpening task is being done (touchups or heavier work).


David

Thank you for this complete explanation.

I am no so concerned about the time or preparation of the system since I resharpen every two months at most and it is a ritual so I dont mint spending some time.

As I said, since I am not experienced I have a hard time finding the angle of the edge and I don´t want to ruin my new knives.
 
Thank you for this complete explanation.

I am no so concerned about the time or preparation of the system since I resharpen every two months at most and it is a ritual so I dont mint spending some time.

As I said, since I am not experienced I have a hard time finding the angle of the edge and I don´t want to ruin my new knives.

If you are mainly interested in simple & regular maintenance of your edges, and don't see the need for heavy grinding & rebevelling work, you can still get some good use out of other systems like the Lansky or Sharpmaker. In particular, the Sharpmaker is a very, very good system for maintaining edges that never get too far-gone (don't let them get too dull before attempting resharpening). So long as the basic geometry of the edge is set within it's limits (30°-40° inclusive), it's very easy to keep edges in good shape with the Sharpmaker. My point is, I don't want to try to steer you to only one device or system; a lot depends on what your goals are and how you prefer to go about it.

Another small point, but not a deal-breaker: If your waterstones are very dished or prone to becoming so, the DMT clamp's accuracy and repeatability will be somewhat affected, because the angle will vary as the depth of the 'dish' in the stone changes. It's best-utlilized on stones that are dead-flat and stay so; but even with a slightly dished stone, I think you'll like the better results afforded by the clamp.


David
 
The main drawback to most guided sharpening systems is the relatively small stones used; some are much smaller than others (Lansky system, for example). The smaller ones I think were really designed and intended for lighter touch-up & maintenance work, instead of for heavy grinding and rebevelling, though nearly all of them get used for such heavy work. A benchstone always has an advantage in grinding speed for this reason, as it's surface area makes the biggest difference in how fast it removes metal. A typically-sized bench stone will likely cut the working time in half, and maybe down to 1/3 or 1/4 of the time needed with a smaller guided hone. Another advantage of using a larger stone is it's conduciveness to long, smooth sharpening strokes, which usually translates to better results and a cleaner finish on the bevels. There's necessarily a lot of 'back & forth' involved in using smaller stones for heavier grinding work, and that can make it more difficult or awkward to leave a clean-looking finish on the bevels and a clean-cutting apex at the edge. You can stick to only edge-leading passes with the smaller stones, to maintain a clean & even scratch pattern; but that also will be very slow-going during earlier grinding stages. Smaller stones will also wear & clog much faster, because all of that grinding is done with relatively little abrasive stock. All of this is why I suggested using a guided clamp that works well with a bench stone, as it still allows you to take advantage of the larger stone's cutting speed and ease of use.

The Aligner clamp is made to be used with either a bench stone or with guided-rod hones (such the 'Aligner' set or with DMT's DiaFold hones and the 'MagnaGuide' accessory used with them). So, the upside in trying it out is, you can get the clamp with a set, or use it by itself with your bench stones, depending on which sharpening task is being done (touchups or heavier work).

David

I'll give a bit of a counterpoint to this... mostly for the conversation. I do agree that the smaller guided systems like the Lansky have a bit of a struggle with grinding and rebeveling (I remember trying to sharpen some kitchen knives with one that hadn't been done in over 15 years)... but the better guided sharpening systems I mentioned above do a much better job at this. You also get the advantage of "each stroke working", in other words the stone is set at an angle and each stroke removes metal where you want it to. Freehand OTHO, especially when learning how, can actually take longer, regardless of stone size, because there is a bit of "waste" for lack of a better word, in some of the work done. There's also no reason to stick to "only edge-leading passes with the smaller stones, to maintain a clean & even scratch pattern", you can go back and forth especially in the early stages... the final stone you can set the edge/bevel with the grind going in whatever direction you want.

I'll also say (probably my main counterpoint)... I don't really comment on this much, because I didn't spend a lot of time with it, but I often wonder if the DMT Aligner clamp was designed to be used with a bench stone, or if it was more of an afterthought. You can do it, and it does work to some degree, but I found it to be very slow and limiting. A lot of knives didn't seem to fit the scenario... especially ones with much of a belly. It's limited on where you can clamp the blade and get the whole knife to contact the stone, it's hard to match what is already on the knife, so you either have to regrind or sharpen at a higher angle, and I found it to be slow... it just didn't seem designed to me anyway, to work well dragging the plastic clamp across a table with the knife on the stone. I think it would be more trying to do major work with this, than other guided systems. I might suggest it if someone already had the Aligner, and like i said to some degree it works, but not very well IMO... and if one were to go this route, I'd suggest diamond bench stones, because, as OwE said earlier, adding water or oilstones which are often of various thickness, just throws another wrench in the works. Just never seemed to me to be designed with this in mind. If one wanted to use a "guide to learn freehand", I think the Razor Edge Systems clamp that Mahoney mentioned is a better route. Just to be clear, I'm not saying OwE is wrong, this was just my experience and take on it... (feel free to clarify if I'm missing something here)... I just found it such a poor method, that I didn't spend a lot of time with it. (I do think it works well when set up with the rod guided stones).

BTW, I'm not advocating "buy a guided system"... if you want to take the time to learn freehand, it's a great way to sharpen. I spent the last year or so, really concentrating on freehand sharpening over guided sharpening, and while I think guided systems still have some advantages, I'm happy with the edges I'm getting now, and it is less limiting in many respects sharpening freehand vs. sharpening within the confines of a guided device... if you take the time to learn, what OwE says in this area is true.
 
The main drawback to most guided sharpening systems is the relatively small stones used; some are much smaller than others (Lansky system, for example). The smaller ones I think were really designed and intended for lighter touch-up & maintenance work, instead of for heavy grinding and rebevelling, though nearly all of them get used for such heavy work. A benchstone always has an advantage in grinding speed for this reason, as it's surface area makes the biggest difference in how fast it removes metal. A typically-sized bench stone will likely cut the working time in half, and maybe down to 1/3 or 1/4 of the time needed with a smaller guided hone. Another advantage of using a larger stone is that it's conducive to long, smooth sharpening strokes, which usually translates to better results and a cleaner finish on the bevels. There's necessarily a lot of 'back & forth' involved in using smaller stones for heavier grinding work, and that can make it more difficult or awkward to leave a clean-looking finish on the bevels and a clean-cutting apex at the edge. You can stick to only edge-leading passes with the smaller stones, to maintain a clean & even scratch pattern; but that also will be very slow-going during earlier grinding stages. Smaller stones will also wear & clog much faster, because all of that grinding is done with relatively little abrasive stock. All of this is why I suggested using a guided clamp that works well with a bench stone, as it still allows you to take advantage of the larger stone's cutting speed and ease of use.

The Aligner clamp is made to be used with either a bench stone or with guided-rod hones (such as the 'Aligner' set or with DMT's DiaFold hones and the 'MagnaGuide' accessory used with them). So, the upside in trying it out is, you can get the clamp with a set, or use it by itself with your bench stones, depending on which sharpening task is being done (touchups or heavier work).


David


Exactly ! That's why I made this .The first stone is silicon carbide/ I use dry/, the other one is aluminuimoxide/used wet/ and a piece of glass with water sandpaper ... DONE !!!

2n8yiwh.jpg

2ugiia1.jpg


PS. from 0,4mm edge on blade , took me half hour to make the final edge /17DPS/ .....to shave , in the M2 steel
 
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Don't know if DMT actually designed the Aligner clamp for bench stones originally, though they have made plenty of demo videos using it as such. I put off trying it with a bench stone for a long time, as I'd originally bought and used my clamp with the DiaFold/MagnaGuide set. After finally using it with an 8" DuoSharp DMT hone, I'd argue the DMT clamp actually works BETTER with a bench stone, than with the rod-guided hones, for the following reason (excluding the obvious advantage of hone size and grinding speed thereof):

No limitation of reach/length, as with the rod-guided hones used with the clamp. Larger blades are more easily sharpened this way, because the clamped blade setup can slide on the bench/table alongside the stone and pivot to accommodate heel-to-tip sharpening of long blades; that same motion more closely emulates a true freehand stroke, and also helps keep the front edge of the clamp clear from the stone and not getting in the way, as sometimes is the case with the rod-guided hones. As used with a rod-guided hone, the length of the rod and positioning of the clamp on the blade will limit the reach of the hone from a fixed clamp position, therefore limiting the length of blade sharpened without moving the clamp to a secondary position. There's also greater adjustability for angles in using a bench stone, because the sharpening angle can be varied as preferred by simply adjusting the working height of the stone above the bench/table. This gives the guide essentially infinitely-variable angle adjustment within it's operating limits, as opposed to the notched presets as must be used with the guided rods. With the guided rod setup, angle adjustments within each notched setting can be made by repositioning the blade in the clamp (further in/out), but that's sometimes difficult or impossible, depending on the grind of the blade and how much workable surface area there is on the blade to clamp to securely.


David
 
Can't really disagree with any of that, if that's what you have, with just about any sharpening method there are tips and tricks to get what you want, I guess I just think there are better ways. Maybe part of it is that I sharpen more like, what someone called the Japanese method, where the knife is worked back and forth on the stone, hands are more on the knife than the handle, and not just swiping like done with the DMT clamp. But it seems you have good tips for making it work.

Thanks!
 
Can't really disagree with any of that, if that's what you have, with just about any sharpening method there are tips and tricks to get what you want, I guess I just think there are better ways. Maybe part of it is that I sharpen more like, what someone called the Japanese method, where the knife is worked back and forth on the stone, hands are more on the knife than the handle, and not just swiping like done with the DMT clamp. But it seems you have good tips for making it work.

Thanks!

This ^

My opinion now is that the OP would likely benefit from a Wicked Edge or Edge Pro. In all reality with the purchase of a few cheap knives and some practice, the Norton waterstones are a great set even if overpriced, made better by the fact OP already owns them and...they are not cheap to begin with.

If the need to tune up edged tools is very occasional, freehand is not going to be a good option for learning. That said, once one gets used to sharp cutlery, one wants it like that all the time, an application where freehand really comes to the fore.
 
Can't really disagree with any of that, if that's what you have, with just about any sharpening method there are tips and tricks to get what you want, I guess I just think there are better ways. Maybe part of it is that I sharpen more like, what someone called the Japanese method, where the knife is worked back and forth on the stone, hands are more on the knife than the handle, and not just swiping like done with the DMT clamp. But it seems you have good tips for making it work.

Thanks!

Easily done with the DMT clamp, BTW. For heavy grinding steps, that's what I've done with it. Only possible difference is in the orientation of the blade while doing so, with the blade oriented more diagonally to the stone, keeping the clamp clear as you work. Finishing steps get edge-leading only, for me.


David
 
Hello Everybody;

First of all, sorry it took me so long to replay but I was abroad and I had no way to replay.

In the meantime I have decided to get a sharpmaker mostly because it looks like it is the easiest to use and I have it available in a local store.

Thank you again for all the feed back, they were all very helpful.
 
The work sharp with the blade grinder attachment works awesome for me. I was a stone junkie for years too!

If you can hold a knife flat you can use the WSKOBG. The belts are adjusted for angles you just keep it flat. One sharpening through the grits takes about 5 minutes , and the knife can be touched up with your 12k belt or a strop belt (which is the best part of the kit IMO)
 
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