What was considered great knife steel years ago that is now considered cheap or not good?

Yeah, definitely 440C. It used to be sold as a premium steel by custom knifemakers. I never liked it and still don't. There aren't many steels I feel that way about. BG 42 might also qualify but not because a lack of performance. It mostly stopped being used because the lack of availability. It is a stainless ball bearing steel ( stainless version of M 50) and the company had no problems selling what they made and never really tried making nice with the knife industry. The powder steels are more suited and easier to work so now the knife industry has no need to try but a lot of people still value BG 42. I'm one.

That "article" or blog or whatever on Solingen steel reminds me of what it was like back in the 80's and 90's. Mostly just sales hype dressed up as an explanation. If you read carefully it really doesn't explain anything or provide any factual information.

Back in those days other than fans of brands of knives like Cold Steel with their " Carbon V " ( which was at least two different steels and possibly 3 counting the Japan made models) no one really talked steel like now. One had to go to forums for/by knifemakers to talk steel and that was very limited to what few steels were in use by the custom guys. There were not a lot of resources for the steel junky unlike now.
 
AntDog said:
Has BG-42 been mentioned yet? It was all over the place as the new hotness years ago and now I hardly ever see it used anymore.
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It looks like it's mostly used on custom knives. Brian Tighe & Tim Britton use it often. I haven't seen it on a production or mid-tech knife in years.
 
Here's my observations from first coming to bladeforums in 2007, staying solidly for years, and then taking an 8 year break till this year.

When I was here last time S30v was the biggest player in the game. There were plenty of other steels, M4, Zdp-189, D2, the Carpenters steels were just starting to be introduced into some Spydercos.

D2 and CPM-D2 was hot shit back then. I remember trying really hard and succeeding in getting a CPM-D2 Paramilitary (version 1). That was the big sprint run everyone wanted at that moment in time. Also the Benchmade 710 in D2 was another that people fiercly sought out. VG-10 was also very highly thought of. That's why it took me as such surprise when I came back and saw D2 was extremely widespread on chinese knives and seeing the term "chinese D2". That and people saying things like S30v is an entry level steel.

Edit: During my first era here 154cm was the current steel steel that most Benchmades came in and it had been upgraded not long before from 440c. I had a couple Benchmades in 440c. Honestly, I'm not quite as picky on steels as some here because all this still holds true in my mind. I mean, I definitely research all the newer steels and have many cut test charts and what not saved on my PC, and have a sweet Maximet PM3 as my edge retention king, but I don't mind some 154cm and VG10 at all either. In fact I just bought an old school Japan made Al Mar in VG-10!
 
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There are many people out there who venerate two-tone powder blue and white '55 Chevy sedan or a Shelby Cobra (with the small V-8 or the larger one), but no car maker builds either of them anymore. In good repair, each of them can satisfactorily be the car they were designed and built to be, yet the industry has moved on. And now it looks as though the internal combustion engine is on the way out, if not right now, in my lifetime.

The same may be said for the knife world. No, the comparison is not exact. And sure, a good knife maker can forge or grind a great knife from many "old " steel formulations. In the 1980s I worked offshore in the Middle east. . Brought home a couple of chunks of spring steel to give a welder friend. He made two skinners from one piece that are great knives, but also not show quality. This past year, our son and our grandson used them to field dress a deer. Who cares exactly what steel they were made from? I get it.

But the knife making art, craft and industry do move on. The "old" steels are what they are, and good knives may be made from them. Yet there is advancement in the field of metallurgy and newer alloys will have properties not available from traditional steels, stainless or not. When Oldsmobile brought out the "turbo-hydromatic" automatic transmission, the four speed manual designs didn't go away, but eventually became a sort of niche item for the muscle car enthusiast. A similar thing will happen, is happening, in the knife world. Alloys with attractive properties will be devised and used till something seen to be "better" comes along. Spring steel from unknown sources will still be used to make serviceable work-a-day skinners and everyone will be happy;


. unless they choose not to be happy.
 
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Someone posted about making knives from Obsidian in a dystopian, post catastrophe world; not only has that been done, but folks are doing it now. Maybe better than in the old days when flint-knapping was the cutting-edge technology (yeah, I did that on purpose).

YouTube has many videos showing how it is done.
 
VorpelSword said:
There are many people out there who venerate two-tone powder blue and white '55 Chevy sedan or a Shelby Cobra (with the small V-8 or the larger one), but no car maker builds either of them anymore. In good repair, each of them can satisfactorily be the car they were designed and built to be, yet the industry has moved on. And now it looks as though the internal combustion engine is on the way out, if not right now, in my lifetime.

The same may be said for the knife world. No, the comparison is not exact. And sure, a good knife maker can forge or grind a great knife from many "old " steel formulations. In the 1980s I worked offshore in the Middle east. . Brought home a couple of chunks of spring steel to give a welder friend. He made two skinners from one piece that are great knives, but also not show quality. This past year, our son and our grandson used them to field dress a deer. Who cares exactly what steel they were made from? I get it.

But the knife making art, craft and industry do move on. The "old" steels are what they are, and good knives may be made from them. Yet there is advancement in the field of metallurgy and newer alloys will have properties not available from traditional steels, stainless or not. When Oldsmobile brought out the "turbo-hydromatic" automatic transmission, the four speed manual designs didn't go away, but eventually became a sort of niche item for the muscle car enthusiast. A similar thing will happen, is happening, in the knife world. Alloys with attractive properties will be devised and used till something seen to be "better" comes along. Spring steel from unknown sources will still be used to make serviceable work-a-day skinners and everyone will be happy;


. unless they choose not to be happy.
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Shelby did resume production of the big-block cobra in 1997 :) https://www.shelby.com/en-us/Vehicles/Shelby-CSX6000-427-Cobra
 
Steel Snobbery sure is fun! 🤣
I'm holding out for a blade that's harder than High-School Trigonometry..... the toughness of a Drill Instructor... and holds onto it's edge like an ex-Wife hangs onto your retirement plan!
 
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KenHash said:
Marketing is still going on...R2, SG2. SRS15, SRS13, Cowry-X, Cowry-Y. ZDP-189, Hap40, YXR7, etc etc etc.....
Some of these like SRS15 actually go back to the 1980s
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business marketing always paints the future
as something bright and promising ... mesmerized, we usually end up buying the illusion of owning the latest and the best there is.
Photo Animation, Freaky Gifs, Game Effect, New Retro Wave, Good Night Gif, Video Effects, Cinemagraph, Cyberpunk Art, Retro Futurism
 
VorpelSword said:
Ok, I'm not that into the history of sports cars so lets pick another one; Austen-Healy Sprite, Jag E-type, or any of the pre-C8 Coverts.

I think most understand my point, even if my first example was flawed.
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Note the smiley in my reply.

Regarding your point and in particular the comparison to automatic transmissions, I’d like to add something: in Europe, manual or semi-manual transmissions are much more common than in the US, and “muscle cars” are rare. There is obviously a cultural/fashion component to what people like and consider state-of-the-art, independent of the actual technology.

The same happens with steel: for example, no US knife maker uses Sleipner, but it’s quite hot in Europe right now.

That shows that a lot of what’s considered great steel today is based on marketing, not the usefulness of the actual technology.

Roland.
 
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The Mastiff said:
Yeah, definitely 440C. It used to be sold as a premium steel by custom knifemakers. I never liked it and still don't. There aren't many steels I feel that way about. BG 42 might also qualify but not because a lack of performance. It mostly stopped being used because the lack of availability. It is a stainless ball bearing steel ( stainless version of M 50) and the company had no problems selling what they made and never really tried making nice with the knife industry. The powder steels are more suited and easier to work so now the knife industry has no need to try but a lot of people still value BG 42. I'm one.

That "article" or blog or whatever on Solingen steel reminds me of what it was like back in the 80's and 90's. Mostly just sales hype dressed up as an explanation. If you read carefully it really doesn't explain anything or provide any factual information.

Back in those days other than fans of brands of knives like Cold Steel with their " Carbon V " ( which was at least two different steels and possibly 3 counting the Japan made models) no one really talked steel like now. One had to go to forums for/by knifemakers to talk steel and that was very limited to what few steels were in use by the custom guys. There were not a lot of resources for the steel junky unlike now.
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Now, we have an entire market driven by popular opinion. **COUGH COUGH** …M390… **COUGH**

Not to say that it’s not a great steel, but public opinion went all out, and now it’s slowly starting to sour… because of that same rush.

Whatever. Who cares. I’m satisfied with believing that M390 will probably work pretty well for what I want to do with it. Yes, MagnaCut is cool. Yes, I do want that new MBK Sea Otter in yes. Yes, knives are for the most part a novelty and so yes I want the novelty steel.

But will I as a very basic user ever really feel the difference between the M390, MagnaCut, S35VN, VG-10, and whatever other steels? Probably not. But I’ll know what the steel mark says! So it’s still a draw. 😉
 
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