What was the hardness of the older 440c blades?

C

Carl64

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Apr 3, 2005
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I am thinking about hunting down an old one, but I am wondering if a stainless knife made in the 1970's is going to be any harder than 58 (current 420hc).
 
I'm not sure, but to this day my older brother won't buy Buck knives because he sayd they are to hard to sharpen, of course being his younger brother I can't convince him that,

1. Buck has changed to steels that are easier to sharpen.
2. A 40+ year old butchers steel that is worn smooth wasn't the best choice for sharpening 440C.
3. The Buck 110 came out first and is NOT a rip-off of the Schrade 7OT.

OK, that last one had nothing to do with steel, I just get a kick out of hearing him say it, no matter how many times I have shown him he is wrong!

yuk yuk
 
Don't know the exact Rockwell hardness, but my late 70's 112 in 440C is the toughest knife in my collection to sharpen. But what a nice edge it has when I'm done, holds it a long time too. Don't hear much about 440c these days, which is to bad, with a good heat treat its tough to beat as a all around performer. Wish more companies would use it in prodution knives, much better than a lot of stuff being used today. I'd say you should get a couple of old Bucks in 440c, great knives, just remember to pick up a diamond stone while you're at it. Makes sharpening go much easier.
 
I have an old 112 from the early 70's that I use quite often and I have no problem keeping it sharp using a set of diamond "stones."
 
I just retired my two dot 110. If it is the 440c, I have had no problem keeping it sharp using my Lansky. I have used it for my deer hunting ever since I bought it new. This one is probably 1980 to 1981 with 3 inlay rivets.. It sharpens up razor sharp.
 
I just got a "no dot" 112 on eBay (see my Bucking Around on eBay topic).

When I got it, it was in really good shape for a knife from the early 1970s. The blade, however, is really thick near the "edge" compared to a modern Buck. I put "edge" in quotes because there really was no edge per se as the two side did not meet. There was a visible "flat" about 1/64 to 1/32 inch wide where the edge should be.

So ... for the last several days I have been working on reprofiling the blade near the edge with a variety of diamond impregnated tools. It is very slow going, especially near the point. None of my "coarse" tools are coarse any more and it's taking forever to remove a noticeable amount of metal.

Given that, I'd say that it harder than crap! :D

Based on the known hardness of other knives, it's easily over 60 Rockwell C by my estimation. I don't recall anything I've owned being this tough to sharpen. I should probably use power tools, but I tend to make mistakes when I do that.

My Idaho made 110 in 420HC is like hot butter compared to this old 112 in 440C.

I sure hope it's worth it when all is said and done!
 
It will be worth the effort!! You will see once you get your edge on it!!

Or, just toss it in the mail to me and I'll deal that onery piece of steel. :D
 
I bought my first 110 in 1970 and couldn't sharpen it with the tools at hand (Arkansas stones). I remember taking that 110 to a local (EastTexas) custom knife maker (he sold knives under the Seth Birdwell logo). He told me it was a nice knife, but that the blade steel was harder than it needed to be. He said that was why it was hard to sharpen.

The new 110's are easier to sharpen. Probably because of the 420HC steel is not as hard as the 440C, because Buck's new edge bevel (edge2x) is thinner, and because I have much better sharpening tools now.
 
Hardness isn't the only factor, but it certainly plays a major role.
 
LFH said:
It will be worth the effort!! You will see once you get your edge on it!!

Or, just toss it in the mail to me and I'll deal that onery piece of steel. :D
Click to expand...

In the immortal words of "Undercover Brother" . . .


Back up off meeeeeeeeeeee! :D

I bought the knife for my brother for Christmas, but after all this work (and the work to come), I may have to keep it for myself! Hah!
 
I used to manage a cutlery store in the 1980s. The Bucks we sold then were HARD. Somewhere I heard they were up to 65RC. Most of the other stuff that was popular then, Al Mar, Kershaw, Puma, etc. were in the 57-59RC. That along with the edge profile made Bucks difficult to sharpen. We used a wheel from Gerber, which was very fine. Of course it sharpened them with no problem, but a lot of customers brought their Bucks to us to sharpen, claiming they couldn't do it. Steel technology has changed a great deal in the last 20 years, as well as sharpening technology. The 110 I bought last month has a different edge profile than I remember the ones from the 1980s. I also bought a Buck 186 recently, that I really love. I used it to do a little wood carving and touched up the edge on my power strop in about 2 passes per side. It was right back to 'hair poppin' sharp! :D
I really like some of the stuff Buck is putting out now, and have had no difficulty in sharpening them. Besides..........they are American made! :D
 
The grind profile is certainly a lot different. I've never seen a Buck as thick as the one I'm straining to sharpen now.

I suppose some of that may be because much more of the grinding was done by hand "back in the day," so variations are expected. I assume CNC machines are used now?
 
I always find that I have to put "my" edge on any new knife. Always a bit difficult the first time. But much easier after that. None of us would put the same edge on one unless it was in some machine.

Even using the lansky, my son in law and I are just different enough in style that we don't sharpen each others blades when we are at the hunting camp.
 
I reprofiled a couple of "user" 2-dots using a course diamond hone and it wasn't difficult, but then, that's the diamonds working. I then finished the edge with a micro-bevel using the Sharpmaker medium, fine, and ultrafine rods. They now both have thinner edges, and perform beautifully. But, I really can't rate the hardness.
 
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